WTB: A/C Parts?, First ac install...help??? Options

[gtbarnes]

Working on an old water-cooled 914 project with an ac system. I (may)want to re do the whole thing properly. It came with a DPD or vpc condenser box (dont know which it is)I may need another evap case but dont want the under dash vent piece.

Questions...Is the old tube/fin evap worth using? If converted to 134 and a big modern condenser will it get cold enough to be as good as original? It Has a sd508 and barrier hose(i think?) already

The stock evap case(stripped down without vents) I am finding can actually fit behind the dash with just the lower motor/fan showing(radio and glove box was already deleted) Has anyone here done this? The open end of the box will need to be capped with 2 small duct hoses to each vent, at minimum I suppose. . Has any one done it this way?, the fit is so good I would think someone has done this to hide the unit (no radio or glove box though) (condensation/drainage may have stopped others from trying this with the box at this angle but I think it can be made to drain without splatter maybe)

So, I may want to get another bare evap box with usable evap coil in it if anyone has, (locked/burned motor would be fine (mine seems good) . or other parts I may need to try this. and any input would be appreciated, I think I have read most all of the posts on ac conversion here but I have not seen where anyone has put the evap box behind the dash.

[Ninja]

The old-style evaporators will work OK with R134.
I'd change the expansion valve to a 134 unit as R12 has a higher low side ice point than 134. The original R12 valve will work but you will be leaving 5 degrees on the table.

What will NOT work (worth a damn) is the old-style condenser and non-barrier rubber lines.
You need a modern multi-pass flat fin condenser.
You need modern barrier hose. They have two types now. Normal stuff (big and fat) and "reduced barrier" which is 1/2 the OD over the normal.
It's also more "supple" and takes bends easier. It requires specific fittings.

When I can I ALWAYS use reduced barrier now.

A good source for hose and fittings is.
https://coldhose.com/?srsltid=AfmBOor5AHUTS...BPOtx17g5y_C6Le

The "normal" 914 condenser location sucks huge donkey balls!
You (and I) are water cooled and should have a BUNCH better location for a core.

You want as much airflow through the condenser as you can create. Exit is important too.

You want twice as many the fans as you think need.

Mine will incorporate 3000+ CFM of fan flow here.

Underdash units often actually work better than factory stuff as your air path is shorter and they don't have fresh air ducting.

Recirc can be worth 20 degrees on a 110 degree day.

If a customer's vehicle is broken INTO recirc I try to talk them out of fixing it.

Dodge trucks are bad about breaking the recirc door. The fix is either a 2K dash removal OR pulling the blower motor and locking the door into recirc with a drywall screw $50.
Guess what everyone chooses?

Design the flow path for the refrigerant with gentle elevation changes, no vertical tubing if possible. This is to help the oil flow, not the refrigerant.

COMPLETELY flush every molecule of mineral oil from any R12 stuff you incorporate.
Be careful with the PAG oil!
DON"T get any on you!
It's super hygroscopic and will absorb into your body quickly. Your liver can process it, but your kidneys cannot. It stays forever and is cumulative!

BAD SHIT!
Water is the solvent.

Mineral oil is stupid safe to touch. Baby oil is very similar.

PAG oil and mineral oil are NOT compatible and will produce a molasses like substance that cannot lubricate anything.

Your Sanden 508 is a kick ass compressor for this. If it is older than 20 years or has had mineral oil in it I'd just get another. They are CHEAP!

Be careful and get a real Sanden in a Sanden box. Sanden "style" or "type" are not real and should be avoided. This may be the single most copied compressor out there.

Vintage Air is a good source for real Sanden compressors.
You can probably find them locally too, just expect to have to VERIFY real Sanden.
They have a 20-year lifespan before needing all rubber crap changed out.

I have an Automotive AC specialty shop and do this stuff daily.
https://granburyautoac.com/

[gtbarnes]

The old-style evaporators will work OK with R134.
I'd change the expansion valve to a 134 unit as R12 has a higher low side ice point than 134. The original R12 valve will work but you will be leaving 5 degrees on the table.

What will NOT work (worth a damn) is the old-style condenser and non-barrier rubber lines.
You need a modern multi-pass flat fin condenser.
You need modern barrier hose. They have two types now. Normal stuff (big and fat) and "reduced barrier" which is 1/2 the OD over the normal.
It's also more "supple" and takes bends easier. It requires specific fittings.

When I can I ALWAYS use reduced barrier now.

A good source for hose and fittings is.
https://coldhose.com/?srsltid=AfmBOor5AHUTS...BPOtx17g5y_C6Le

The "normal" 914 condenser location sucks huge donkey balls!
You (and I) are water cooled and should have a BUNCH better location for a core.

You want as much airflow through the condenser as you can create. Exit is important too.

You want twice as many the fans as you think need.

Mine will incorporate 3000+ CFM of fan flow here.

Underdash units often actually work better than factory stuff as your air path is shorter and they don't have fresh air ducting.

Recirc can be worth 20 degrees on a 110 degree day.

If a customer's vehicle is broken INTO recirc I try to talk them out of fixing it.

Dodge trucks are bad about breaking the recirc door. The fix is either a 2K dash removal OR pulling the blower motor and locking the door into recirc with a drywall screw $50.
Guess what everyone chooses?

Design the flow path for the refrigerant with gentle elevation changes, no vertical tubing if possible. This is to help the oil flow, not the refrigerant.

COMPLETELY flush every molecule of mineral oil from any R12 stuff you incorporate.
Be careful with the PAG oil!
DON"T get any on you!
It's super hygroscopic and will absorb into your body quickly. Your liver can process it, but your kidneys cannot. It stays forever and is cumulative!

BAD SHIT!
Water is the solvent.

Mineral oil is stupid safe to touch. Baby oil is very similar.

PAG oil and mineral oil are NOT compatible and will produce a molasses like substance that cannot lubricate anything.

Your Sanden 508 is a kick ass compressor for this. If it is older than 20 years or has had mineral oil in it I'd just get another. They are CHEAP!

Be careful and get a real Sanden in a Sanden box. Sanden "style" or "type" are not real and should be avoided. This may be the single most copied compressor out there.

Vintage Air is a good source for real Sanden compressors.
You can probably find them locally too, just expect to have to VERIFY real Sanden.
They have a 20-year lifespan before needing all rubber crap changed out.

I have an Automotive AC specialty shop and do this stuff daily.
https://granburyautoac.com/

Great info! From a ac pro and 914/water owner? I did not know(or think about) the TXV being different for r12/134 ty! How do I get the right one??? Why do some have a second capillary line/ with a fitting?
I think I have my radiator/cooling/fan working enough(holds 170 deg at the t-stat outlet while idling, though the fan mostly runs continuous when sitting still) Driving it has been ok though some situations could get the temp up but not severe. Seems the water circulation speed is good through the system., that was something I was originally mostly concerned about, due to whole design but it seems very good with 160deg tstat and no air pocket( Although I am concerned about blocking it with a large condenser and adding heat to the radiator. I have not chosen a condenser yet(was missing from the car when I got it but everything else for a working ac was there and appeared to have been working for some time)I have some pics to ad here shortly.

These pics show how it will look if mounted. The shape of the firewall looks like it was made to fit in there, the indention is the width of the box, there is room on top for a manifold, the lines come out on the correct side and would be super short to pass to outside. The heater floor vent even fits between the fan/motor space. Hard to see here but the drain is on the front left and is actually angled back some in this position. I think a row of sponge and a slight tilt mount to the left may handle drainage without blowing water out? not sure What do yall think about this?

[Ninja]

This is a post in the classifieds...
I didn't realize before my previous post.

BAD Ninja!

I have been "called out" for posting excessively in the classifieds before.

Your system looks tidy and nice.
And I learned something.

Just 86 the glove box!
Gives more/better options!

Ninja OUT! (at least in a classifieds post).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[gtbarnes]

This is a post in the classifieds...
I didn't realize before my previous post.

BAD Ninja!

I have been "called out" for posting excessively in the classifieds before.

Your system looks tidy and nice.
And I learned something.

Just 86 the glove box!
Gives more/better options!

Ninja OUT! (at least in a classifieds post).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Yea, sorry about getting technical in the classified section but I was asking/looking for another evap case/core and any other parts yall could recommend that you want to sell.