Shifting problems, clutch related? Options

[TonyAKAVW]

I've noticed lately on my daily driver, that after a few minutes of driving (maybe 10) it becomes difficult to shift into 1st from a sstop without grinding.

Going into second gear and then into first helps a little.

So talking with Phantom914 at work today and Bondo on the phone, it seems like it is either the clutch nnot disengaging completely, or the release bearing is stuck.

Has anyone else had a similar situation? Its getting really annoying to drive for more than a few minutes.

-Tony

[MattR]

Everytime you shift into first or reverse, you should really shift into 2nd and/or 3rd to spin the transmission down. Its a habit for me now driving 901s... just push in the clutch, put it in 2nd then 3rd then 1st and let the clutch out.

[Joe Ricard]

Or you could fix it.
Seems everybody is gettinginto the transaxle rebuild these days. Really fixing 1st gear is not that hard. most likely the slider has a bur on it and not sliding smoothly. and a new synchro ring would help too.
Mine used to do that till I jumped in and fixed it. Fred Hurst is now a believer after this weekend. You can speed shift a 901.

[Buckeye '73]

Mine did the same. So I posted the same question 2 weeks ago.

Best answer was "shift into a taller gear first".

It worked for me.

[olav]

When was the last time you changed your tranny oil?

If its been a while you might want to do that.

[Aaron Cox]

adjust your clutch - see if that helps.

I also do the 2nd/3rd into first procedure if im not moving.

1stgear costs MONEY to fix (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[Allan]

QUOTE (Buckeye '73 @ Nov 8 2005, 08:11 AM)

Best answer was "shift into a taller gear first".

Works for me. I only use 1st if I am at a dead stop, then a quick pull into 3rd and 1st goes in nice and smooth.

[mightyohm]

Tony, I remember that when I drove your car, your clutch adjustment was WAYYY off. It was engaging way too early. I don't think that adjusting the clutch to engage any earlier is going to do much (other than break stuff). Maybe your clutch tube is bending because it has broken away from one of the brackets in the tunnel? Alternatively your pressure plate is fubared from being overextended all this time? Not sure what the failure mode is for that.

Does the transmission have fluid in it?

[TonyAKAVW]

I just put new fluid in the transmission last week, made no difference. I really ought to check the clutch tube too...

So this grinding happens even at a dead stop. When I start from a dead stop, even going up into 2nd wants to grind, I suppose I could start using third. The strange thing is, that there is no sign that going up to the 2nd gear synchro is doing anything to spin down the transmission. Its like it wants to keep going.

Another problem I remember is that the idling changes just very very slightly depending on how far I have the clutch in. And yes, my clutch is adjusted way too high, but that shouldn't be causing this unless the spring force is gone, but wouldn't I feel that?

Lastly, there is a leak either in the engine or the transmission at the clutch. Either the main seal on the engine or the input to the trans. Dont know if that would make any difference though. Also, my 2nd gear synchro is kinda shot. When going into 2nd, unless I do it VERY slowly there's usually a small nick as it goes in.

I think after I check the clutch tube I will probably find that I need a new clutch, and new 1st and 2nd gear parts. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)


-Tony

[bd1308]

for 2nd, you need to tear apart your tranny.


b

[MattR]

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Nov 8 2005, 09:48 AM)

Another problem I remember is that the idling changes just very very slightly depending on how far I have the clutch in.

Check to make sure the accelerator and clutch cable arent wrapped around eachother in the tunnel. To check that, take off the front access cover on the tunnel, get a flashlight and small mirror and check both cables. If they are twisted, that could be a problem. Its an easy fix...

[bd1308]

its definately a clutch related problem....

for reasons i don't know....if you have the clutch out and try to shift a good working manual transmission car, the idle will change, probably due to the synchros....

my guess and gut feeling is that you have a problem with your clutch tube. Tihings liek this never get better.

b

[mightyohm]

I'm guessing your clutch is adjusted too high to compensate for the clutch tube problem. That is the typical progression of that problem, you keep adjusting it more and more until eventually the tube rips out.

If you stop and push in the clutch, wait 10 seconds, and try to hit reverse what happens? If it grinds, the transmission isn't spinning down, most likely because the clutch isn't disengaging.

I have also had the clutch disc "stick" on the splines, especially when the car was cold. This doesn't sound like your problem, but the solution was to take the transmission off and clean everything up. I put in new parts while I was in there and everything has been ok since.

[TonyAKAVW]

Okay so during lunch today I took off the cover at the firewall on the tunnel and as I pushed the clutch down I could see the tube move. Its not moving a lot, but its defintiely flexing and there is some small amount of movement.

Also noticed this morning that just after I started it up, it ground into 1st and 2nd for a few minutes and then was better, as if it needed heating up or who knows.

Tonight I'll put it up on stands and take a look underneath and see whats going on at the firewall. I believe the tube was already welded there by a PO.

-Tony

[mightyohm]

Tony, do a search and read up on clutch tube repair. The tube is attached in 3 places. A break at any of the 3 will cause it to flex and you will lose pedal travel (essentially the tube works as a pivot as well as a guide, and if the pivot point moves, the cable slackens).

[TonyAKAVW]

Update...

I thought I had the problem fixed when I fixed up the clutch tube, but it seems I was wrong. It was working well for a while but then...

Sunday I had my clutch cable break at the transmission. Yesterday I installed a new cable and had a heck of a time adjusting it. I have it adjusted pretty tight now, so that the clutch engages about 1/2 way to 2/3 of the way up the pedal travel. I had to do this because if it was adjusted any looser, the transmission would not spin down when I engaged the clutch. So that means, 1st, 2nd, and reverse would all grind with the clutch pedal pushed all the way in.

So I thought I had things adjusted reasonably well last night and was even cinsidering loosening it a tiny bit. Fastforward to this morning on my way to work, and for the first several shifts, it doesn't like going into 1st or 2nd. After the car warmed up a little, (maybe 3 minutes) the shifting improved.

Oh, lastly, my new cable is a terry cable and I can hear the cable rubbing against the center tunnel clutch tube. Should this section of the cable get grease? Or will it just eventually wear its way through the tube?

-Tony

[rhodyguy]

while it's up in the air have someone operate the cluch pedal. is the clutch fully disengaged? do you need to adj the pedal stop on the floor board? what did you adj the pedal end of the cable to?

k

[TonyAKAVW]

QUOTE

while it's up in the air have someone operate the cluch pedal. is the clutch fully disengaged? do you need to adj the pedal stop on the floor board? what did you adj the pedal end of the cable to?

I did just that... The clutch arm goes back maybe 2/3 to 3/4 the back of the slot that it sticks out from on the bell housing when the pedal is depressed.


The pedal stop on my floorboard is gone, so no adjustment there.... The pedal end of the cable is adjusted per the service manual to about 1 cm of thread protruding into the clevis. The transmission end is such that the trunion is maybe 3-5 threads from the end of the threaded section (that is to say, about as tight as it can be adjusted).

-Tony

[mightyohm]

Either your clutch tube is broken away somewhere else or your clutch disc is messed up from being over extended. Verify the clutch tube is attached its whole length, verify nothing weird is going on at the pedal cluster. If that doesn't turn up anything I think it's time to pull the tranny and figure out what's going on. That's what I would do at least. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

[TonyAKAVW]

I'm sure the clutch tube is fine, so I guess its time to pull things apart. So I better get the Suby project on the road, considering I have space in my garage for exactly 1 car.

Another thing I noticed is that the clutch seems to have a very wide range of engagement. About 1/4 to 1/3 off the floor, the clutch engages a little. Only until about 3/4 or more up does it fully and completely engage. So it seems I have the engagement centered properly, but its just engaging over a huge range.

-Tony