Wiring hell, stumped-long. Options

[Hammy]

I'm having a lot more trouble with my lights than I thought I would.
First off, PO had the car wired so that the fogs would only turn on with brights. I see no point in that, but that's how it was wired. They had a black wire w/ blue stripe coming out from under the dash wiring harness area plugged into the #3 fuse. I think this black wire with blue stripe was supposed to go onto the fog light switch? There were only 2 wires plugged into the fog light switch when I found it.

I tried to do the fog light rewiring that required cutting a few wires, and piggybacking a few. I failed to get that to work.

So I bought a fog light flash kit and it's well made. I have it all wired up, and the fog lights were working with the ignition just like they're supposed to and would flash when I pulled the stalk back. My headlights would open up, but the headlights would NOT turn on, but parking lights would.

I turned the turn signal lever down to see if the signals would work and I lost my dash lights, and fog lights.

I know this has nothing to do with the fog light flasher kit, I'm not flaming on that. It's got to be the PO's wiring. I'm frusterated as hell. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

First off, what's supposed to go into the #3 fuse closest to the seat?

[markb]

You've gone to Pelican & gotten their wiring diagrams, right? All I can say is start tracing down the wiring. Fix what the PO did before you start adding things, or you'll just get confused.

Don't feel bad, I'm still tracking down gremlins in the 71. Sometimes it seems it will never end. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[swl]

that's a real ugly part of the wiring diagram.

I'm not sure whether that is fuse 3 or 10 on the wiring diagram. I'm inside nice and warm. Wind is howling, cold as sin. So I'm not going out to look at the physical panel. So I'm assuming that it is fuse 10 you are looking at. It has a red/black that goes to the foglight relay and ultimately powers the foglights. The supply for that relay comes through the foglight switch but before that from the headlight switch. That's where things get really complex and I don't have it figured out yet. I can tell you that the four ways are involved and it looks like it is the factory, not the PO that wired it to the high beam.

studying some more

[swl]

there is a black/blue that should run from connector 15 of the fog light switch ro terminal 56 of the headlight switch. So maybe what the PO was trying to do was make the fogs work independant of the high beams? Without power at pin 15 of the fog light switch your lights won't come on.

[SGB]

I'm not studying diagrams either, but I know that the headlights are individually fused (fuse 1&2 are low beam, 3&4 are high beam) so if BOTH are not illuminated, it indicates that the flasher relay isn't wired right- and that is where the fog-flasher integrates. I don't know how the PP kit works really. I wired my own several years ago using 2 relays, not the kit, but I do recall that the only common source for both HL is at the flasher relay.

[Hammy]

Thanks for the replies!

I know the wire went to fuse #3, and I know the PO hacked with it because there was another piece of wire spliced on the end of it to make it longer.

Where/which one is the flasher relay?

[lapuwali]

Beware that this is all just about the most complicated section of the wiring system on the 914.

There's a relay on the fuse board that's a square box, usually silver, which is mounted "upside down", with the unwired end attached to the board and the wires pushed on to the terminals. This controls whether the high or low beams are on, and switches between those two states with the high beam switch on the stalk.

There's another relay that generates the flashing for the turn signals and the hazard flashers, which is a round three-prong relay (flat blade prongs) that plugs into the fuse board. The rest of the relays on the fuse board are 5 terminal (round terminals) round relays that plug into the board.

I hated this section of the stock wiring so much I completely redesigned it for my rewire, but it's not for everyone (no hazards, and you have to use a different high beam switch).

[Hammy]

I must be stupid or don't understand these Haynes manual wiring diagrams because I'm getting more and more confused... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) Also I don't see that signal/hazard three prong relay on my fuse board. All I see are five prongs... where is it at?

[swl]

dont get down on yourself Zack. This is a really complex bit of wiring. I've been messing around with wiring since I was 12 and that area hurts my head.

Have you considered undoing what you have done and trouble shooting the PO's setup. Without the new modifications I would be tempted to hook up the black/blue to the fog light switch and see what happens.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (Hammy @ Nov 23 2005, 05:21 PM)

I must be stupid or don't understand these Haynes manual wiring diagrams because I'm getting more and more confused... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) Also I don't see that signal/hazard three prong relay on my fuse board. All I see are five prongs... where is it at?

It has four, not three, prongs, my apologies. It's item 47 on the wiring diagrams. The colored diagrams Pelican has on their site are substantially more readable than the B&W diagrams in Haynes. If you have '74, you can actually use the '73 diagram for most things, and the diagram is more readable than the current flow diagram for the '74. The '75 is quite different in several spots, and I can't help as much there.

The stock flasher unit is a metal case, round, and usually taller than the others relays. It MAY have been replaced with an aftermarket flasher that's not round and not metal, but it should still be the only one there with flat blade prongs instead of the round prongs on all of the others, except for the "dead bug" combo relay.

The best thing to do would be to get out a pad and pen and draw out JUST the part of the wiring diagram you need, so you understand how it all goes together. Lack of clutter helps immensely.

[lapuwali]

I really need to diagram this, but here goes.

The No 3 fuse powers the low beams. Power comes in through a yellow wire to No 4, and is bridged also to No 3 (no wire on that side for No 3). There are two yellow wires coming out, both yellow, which go to the low beams. The yellow wire going IN comes from the headlight switch.

The No 10 fuse (opposite the No 3 fuse) also has no wire IN, as it's bridged to 11 and 12, and No 11 has a red wire IN. The red/black wire OUT from No 10 power the fogs, though a relay (53 on the diagrams). This red/black wire POWERS the fogs, and the switch for the fogs is the grey/red wire to relay 53. This connection grounds the relay switch, and the power for the relay switch comes from (wait for it), the high beam power. This comes from the white/blue wire connected to relay 27, which is the combo relay that switches between high and low beams. If the high beams are powered, the fog light relay is powered, too. If the high beams are NOT powered, neither are the fog lights. So, this isn't the PO's doing, that's factory. Who knew? The white yellow wire out of relay 53 goes to the fog lights.

This tells me these aren't actually "fog" lights, but "driving" lights, for more light than your high beams put out. My wife calls these "asshole" lights.

The big deal about the turn signals is that they used one relay for both the turn signals and the hazard flashers. On many cars, you'd see one flasher unit that provided power to both the hazard flasher switch and the center post on the turn signals, so if either the hazard flasher or EITHER turn signal switch was turned on, power would route from +12, through the flasher, through a switch (hazard or turn), out to lights, where it grounded, and the flasher would simply turn on and off as the bimetal bit did its thing. On the 914, the flasher is AFTER the switches, appears to be in parallel with the lights. This is all confusing.

However, I'm also the one who's so confused by why there are 10 terminals on the headlight switch, and why there are so many on the hazard switch. There are three on the fog light switch, and I can only figure out what two of them do. The black/blue wire is a mystery to me. It appears to ground the dash lights and bridges to the trunk light.

Electrickery, indeed.

[Hammy]

Thanks for the detailed info
I thought the fogs were only selectable on low beams from the factory? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)
Today I marked all the wires and took out the fuse board. Then I cleaned it up and sanded down the contacts.

If I'm right doesn't the flasher relay ground itself to the fuse board, with it's little clip thing? I'm thinking that may be part of the problem..

Does anyone have a pic of the wires that connect to flasher relay? I'm having trouble finding what color wires connect to it from the wiring diagrams. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[Hammy]

Sweet! Okay, went at it again today. Had the fuse board out and sanded and cleaned everything, rewired it back to the factory way (DAPO half ass wiring... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) )and put on some new terminals and spliced some wires better and..... everything but low beams work! I'm so thrilled (remember before nothing worked)

Okay, can anyone help me here? It must have something to with fuses 3 and 4, right? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[lapuwali]

Fuses 3 & 4, and the combo relay, and the wiring to the low beams, and the bulbs.

[Hammy]

Ok now a new problem

Whenever I have the ignition on, (oil light and green light on dash turn on, fuel pump turns on), and pull out the headlight switch to test the lights, EVERYTHING turns off instantly. Interior light, fuel, dash lights.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[Hammy]

Nevermind.

Discovered battery connections must be TIGHT. stupid me.

Ok now another question, I have the fuel tank out, everytime i turn on the ignition to test my lights and wiring the fuel pump comes on. Is that bad for the pump? Should I disconnect the wires for it?

[lapuwali]

Yes. Running the pump with no fuel in it overheats the pump.