914's as an investment, just a thought Options

[Howard]

I have been asked to write an article about car enthusiasts and would like to make the topic "914, Porsche's Ugly Duckling"

Have lots of stuff on the racing record. The car won everything in the under (and over) 2.0 GT class while the factory supported it, but want to spend more time on the 'fun factor' of the cars. Think about the lines of 'The last real Porsche'. After the 914, everything that came from them was heavier, more powerful, more expensive, and more gold chain than sports car.

Give me some ammo to use.
Edit: Here's something for you. Le Mans 1970. The 914 finished 6th and first in GT.
The cars that beat it were: 2 917's, 1 908, and 2 Ferrari 512's. If you could find any of these, they would be worth over $1,000,000 each and not be street legal. NARP my ass.

[GWN7]

add in the pic of you with the 5 997's.....I love that one....all those high priced cars and everyone is looking at your car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[SLITS]

Investment? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Stocks, bonds, real estate, savings accounts, even jars full of loose change are investments. Cars are just cars. If you'd taken the money you would have spent on one of the cars you mentioned in your post and invested it wisely, you'd have more than that million dollars you mentioned. The Cap'n

[black73]

The only ones to profit from the 914 are the parts suppliers! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

[lapuwali]

If I took $5000 in 1970 and bought a 914/6, I'd be able to sell it for about $20K, maybe $25K today.

If I took $5000 in 1970 and put it into a fund that did no better than the market average (10%/year), I'd have about $170K today.

Worse, if I took $3500 and bought a 914/4 in 1970, I'd have a car worth $4-5K today.

Worse still, if I took $25K and bought a Mercedes 500SEC in 1985, I'd have a car worth about $5K.

Even cars that hold up well in value, like the 914/6, are terrible investments. Great cars, though. Buy cars for what they are: fabulous toys or disposible utilities.

[JeffBowlsby]

Only the highest value collector cars can be regarded as investments and even those would be very risky. Everyday cars are not investments, but some cars are reflect better managing of money than others. We all want to manage money wisely, and managing money includes both the way we spend for expenses and investing for gain.

I bought a 914 for $300, parted it and made over $1000. Thats was a good investment of the $300, but the return reflected more sweat labor cost than investment gain.

I bought another driver 914 flipped it and made $1400 profit. Did nothing to it other than find the car at the right price and knew its true value, where the seller did not.

2 other 914s I bought have maintained their value and in fact appreciated a bit and I have had the pleasure of driving them regularly. For a car, any car that serves transportation needs, to maintain its value over several years and not depreciate, shows wisdom in spending money. That situation can easily implode if there are significant repair costs or an accident. But so far I have been ok.

Compare that to my wifes car, a newer model sedan, that has depreciated in value by probably 65% in the 4 years we have owned it. Probably lost over $20K in those 4 years. We just suffered a $2K repair bill to it in addition. Not a good investment, we need to keep this car another 5-10 years just to make it close to reasonable, and recoup some of the depreciation money. She likes the car but, Ouch.

Another car we have, we bought new in 1990. Paid off years ago, the only cost is insurance gas tires and batteries and we have never had any costly problems with it. Its too nice of a car to sell, because we still need it, its reliable and it costs us little to maintain. I think that is money spent wisely, but not an investment.

I drive my 914s because they are not expensive to buy and maintain their value if not abused. They easily offset the loss on other vehicles. But I buy nicer 914s that don't need much work, just little stuff. A $1000 914 that needs an interior, drivetrain, paint job etc, is a continual money pit and will never be a good deal.

And the GRIN factor is a HUGE plus.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

[J P Stein]

Use a lot of humor, Howard......these are toys, ya know. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[dekman]

Definitely....focus on the fun factor! Of course include the history and the wins....but for me the interesting part is after the factory quit making them. This little Karman Gia bodied car developed new life all its own. If you drive one, a 4 or a 6, and feel the car.... like me....your hooked. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[skline]

These cars are not investments of any kind. I didnt buy any of them with the intent of making any money at all. They are toys for me to play with, drive and enjoy. If I were to buy an investment car, it would have been the GTO in 1975 for $500 and kept it in a garage all this time. Or the 69 Camaro RS with the 327 and factory 4 speed I had in high school. Those still would not have made me any money in the long run as it takes money to keep them up to standard where someone else would want to buy it.

That is my opinion.

[anthony]

I've actually made a tidy sum on my 914s. Like Jeff, I bought a pretty nice 914 and it's appreciated these last few years. Still, I know I'm an engine or transmission rebuild away from all those gains to be wiped out so I'm not fooling myself. In the end it will be nice to know that I maybe broke even and got all my money back out of the car.

QUOTE

Think about the lines of 'The last real Porsche'. After the 914, everything that came from them was heavier, more powerful, more expensive, and more gold chain than sports car.

This is where readers will roll their eyes and think you are a cook. Just stick to the 914 and it's merits. Putting down Porsches that came after is just lame. There were many high points for Porsche after the 914 - 911SC, 911 Carrera, 930 Turbo, 944 Turbo, 928 GTS, 993S, etc.

[TINCAN914]

Well I'm now at a new low. Here I am cutting sanding and working my fingers to the bone, and now you guy's are telling me, if I am lucky, I might brake even?
Man did the PO sell me a line.. Investment... geeeeezzzz!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I'm sure over the 30 or so years the 914 has been around it's had writers kick sand at it from every angle. If I were sharing my thoughts and insight about our cars, I would want inspire and enlighten reads with a discription of the lines and simplicity of the design. I don't agree that the car is an ugly duck. (unless your being fecetious) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

I would want to start by sharing my ideas about who influenced the chassis. Look at the way the car was assembled. The chassis could have been a direct decendent of the VW beetle. I mean after all, it is a Volkswagon isn't it? It's powered by an air cooled 4 cylinder motor, it's small, you really don't need anymore over kill in design than a bug chassis has to offer, right?

NO! It's my opinion that In 1968, Porsche would have never sat down at a planning meeting with anyone if they were simply designing and building a 2 seat bug. I would have loved to be a mouse in the corner during the first few meeting between the planning teams from VW and Porsche. I wouls have loved to have watched the sketch pad change from a simple VW type car to a true mid-engine Porsche.

If you don't think Porsche had clear control over the beginings of the design, I would suggest some serious reflection. Porsche had a clear agenda. They only backed winners. No acceptions. Just because Porsche and VW had mutual roots they were clearly different companies. It's my opinion that porsche would have dropped this joint build like a hot potato if the 914 was destined to be a 2 seat bug.

The clues to Porsches dominance in the planning meetings are in the chassis. 911 stlye front suspension, 911 style 4 wheel disc brakes, welded unit body construction, (not a simple bolted on floor pan) clearly improved rear boxed trailing arms with coil over type suspension control. This is a clear and stark improvement over the flat steel and torsion bar susupension in the 911 of that era!

Then there's the forward thinking implementation of fuel injection, the 5 speed gear box, ( when 911's just got the 5 sp and VW's still had 4sp's)

These are only a few of the clues to Porsches control over the design. It's my opinion that the 914 was to be the the design change for the future. If it wasn't for the death of the head of VW we would have had a boxster 20 years ago.

Over the years, many companies have used the 914 chassis in an attempt to build and sell a more eye appealing body. I can't say there have been many success stories. The 914 body is porportioned so well and the style is so simple and clean that re-styles usually end up looking heavy and unbalanced.

Even the design of the GT style flares. Simple function, and not outside the lines of style and design for the era.

I may come back to this and type more. My train of thought was interupted by a phone call from and old friend. It will be interesting to see what ideas flow here. Howy, if you agree with any of my thoughts on this subject, feel free to use anything I type. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)


A few more things, Cars as investments in general are never a great idea. Even the best performing investment cars harbor hidden costs never factored in during ownership. Things like garaging. In the dry climits, thats not so much of a factor, but in seasonal climits, investment cars are housed in some very expensive square footage. Heated garaging with climit control, security systems, and insurance. Also loss of use of the vehicle for fear a collision will ruin your investment. High end maintenance costs due to the compulsion to bring your car to a high end shop for items as simple as an oil change.

So true investment cars become un-enjoyed, un-loved personal property with less real value than one will admit.

With that in mind, a real car guy or gal will love their car, work on it and exercise it as often as possible. Win, lose or draw. The value is in the car and the friends you make along the journey. If I were to factor that in, I'm a millionaire! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif) Best investment I ever made! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)

[Howard]

Let me rephrase the question. Very few cars achieve status as investments. 1955-1965 had the last batch. Leaving out the Detroit Iron, in 1963 you could buy a D-Jag, 250 Testa Rossa, or RSK for about $5000. Lovely cars, but then worthless as racers. They have achieved greatness, selling for close to $1mil. You still would have better off buying IBM (and selling at the right time).

But back to now. I've been around the cars just enough to know that it costs about $10k to have a 4 and $18K for a 6. Nice cars that you could *almost* use as daily drivers, not that you would; this is your weekend toy. You certainly can buy one for less, but sooner or later you'll have at least that much in the car.

So why did you buy a 914/4 instead of a Miata or a 914/6 instead of a Boxster? Good stuff, guys, keep it coming. Do a paragraph (for this article).

[TINCAN914]

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 28 2006, 09:37 AM)

Let me rephrase the question.  Very few cars achieve status as investments.  1955-1965 had the last batch.  Leaving out the Detroit Iron, in 1963 you could buy a D-Jag, 250 Testa Rossa, or RSK for about $5000.  Lovely cars, but then worthless as racers.  They have achieved greatness, selling for close to $1mil.  You still would have better off buying IBM (and selling at the right time). But back to now.  I've been around the cars just enough to know that it costs about $10k to have a 4 and $18K for a 6.  Nice cars that you could *almost* use as daily drivers, not that you would; this is your weekend toy.  You certainly can buy one for less, but sooner or later you'll have at least that much in the car. So why did you buy a 914/4 instead of a Miata or a 914/6 instead of a Boxster?  Good stuff, guys, keep it coming.  Do a paragraph (for this article).

As to the reason I bought my 914:
Well when I was about 10 years old my father drove upwith an Ornage one, and I thought it was the greatest car.
He had previously owned a 72 Corvette, neat car, fast but not the same. He had a 912 yellow. Also very nice, but for some reason the 914 had something that the others didn't. Maybe because it was small and it seemed as though I could have driven it, perhaps because I could relate it to ago kart. Well he sold it shortly after I turned 15 and I was crushed... I drempt of driving that car but never had the chance. We took many trips and made some great memories. Last summer I finally said I was going to create those same memories with my boys. I bought it for a song, and still have a great deal of work coming, but I long for the day when I turn the kay and smmile from ear to ear while reliving the days when I had to dream of actually getting behind the wheel.

I have no doubt I will never see the retun on my investment in the financail sense, but what I am gaining in spending the time with my son Kyle working side by side, can't be measured in dollars. So why did I buy the car? Simple If may qoute Joe "Premagrin"

[Brew]

I bought my 914 a few months ago, 20 years removed from my last experience with one. While looking for a sportscar, I considered 911s, Miatas, Vettes, and a very few others. I bought the 914 partly for the nostalgia, partly because it's NOT japanese, partly because it's some of the most affordable fun you can buy, partly because of the upgradeability, partly because of the uniqueness, and mostly because of the visceral feel of a 914. There's simply nothing else quite like it.

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 28 2006, 09:37 AM)

So why did you buy a 914/4 instead of a Miata or a 914/6 instead of a Boxster? Good stuff, guys, keep it coming. Do a paragraph (for this article).

It wasn't my fault and it ain't a pretty story (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

After buying a 9eleben, I bought a 914 for my daughter....a rust bucket....but hidden....what did I know? The daughter got married....that cost me my 911....it was untouchable anyhow and I've always been a hotrodder. So, I'm stuck with this 914 shitbox. I got to rootin' around in it and found that it was not worth my time.....but found some basic goodness there.
A hotrodders bare canvass.....but not this one. I solt it (took it in the ass, too) and found a good one after 6 mos search.

The rest is history, but a somewhat prettier story.....tho maybe a Miata woulda been better. Maybe another time.

[JeffBowlsby]

The 914 is my daily driver. I drive it anywhere and everywhere, and have since 1998, with only basic maintenance. I like the lines of the 914. To me its a simple, unpretentious form, and a basic, raw, no-frills, sports car, unlike newer sports cars. The hardshell Targa top is great in the summer. Enough power for a high grin per mile ratio, and inexpensive enough to not break the bank. I could have a Boxster, a Benz or most any car I would want, but the 914 satisfies an innate need for me as a no-nonsense fun machine.

[J P Stein]

Jeff & I are at opposite ends of the 914 spectrum and maybe that sums up the allure of the 914.....tho you could say the same about a Miata (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

I agree with you JP...I think it is the essential thing about a 914 that makes it a great car. It is respected on so many different levels - as a basic sports car, as a race car to whatever degree your wallet can afford, and as an inexpensive collector car.