Jake or anyone else..."smallest" Type IV built??, de-stroked or de-bored?? |
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Jake or anyone else..."smallest" Type IV built??, de-stroked or de-bored?? |
Mueller |
Mar 14 2006, 09:32 PM
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#1
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
are those really words?? hahahha
just wonding if anyone has gone down in size for who-knows-what reason (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) |
Jake Raby |
Mar 14 2006, 09:40 PM
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#2
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Yes...
For revs when torque isn't needed. Smallest for me was 64X88 (1550cc) and it was before I had a dyno, built from a destroked 66mm crank, stock rods lightened to hell and back with chevy bolts and an 88mm TI Cima piston. I have no idea how much power it made, but it would bounce of 8,000 RPM like nothing... It was installed into a single seat sand rail that was literally a death trap for the owner at Glamis in 1994 when he launcehed off a razorback and snapped his neck. |
Dave Bell |
Mar 14 2006, 09:59 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 234 Joined: 27-November 03 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 1,398 Region Association: None |
wild... if my quick math is right... the 1550 at 8000 rpm... assuming it was still breathing good... would be pulling in the same amount of air as a 2270 at 5500 rpm or a stock 2L at 6300 RPM...
How high did the engine spin? |
Mueller |
Mar 14 2006, 10:02 PM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
hmmmm....let's see, I've got a spare 1800 motor with a 66 stroke, wonder if those Forged type I Cima 85.5 pistons and cylinders would work? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) a 1500cc turbo motor sounds fun.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) |
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Eric_Shea |
Mar 14 2006, 10:16 PM
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#5
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,275 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Someone who know's PCA rules may be able to shed some light on "I-Class" (I think? Not sure if that's the one or not...) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)
It seems to me that a well built 1700 T4 teener should dominate no? I 'think' this is a vintage class with all the 356's etc... That might be a good reason to build a killer 'small block' (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) I think 70's and 71's might qualify (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) |
Root_Werks |
Mar 15 2006, 10:25 AM
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#6
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,321 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Didn't VW use the T4 in the 412/411 series as a 1600cc for a couple of years? I wonder what piston/stroke that had? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)
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Brett W |
Mar 15 2006, 10:34 AM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None |
I think the SuperVees were powered by a 1600cc T4 motor for awhile. Then it was replaced by the Watercooled Rabbit motor.
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Jake Raby |
Mar 15 2006, 10:36 AM
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#8
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
The Super Vee had a 1600cc industrial TIV engine as it's base with a 566mm stroke and 88mm bore.
The engine I did had an issue with revs. At the time no lighter weight valves were available for less than a fortune and all we had was VW dual valve springs that would not control the revs past 8,000. It would have spun higher for sure. |
Dominic |
Mar 15 2006, 10:41 AM
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#9
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Dominic Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 14-January 03 From: Vacaville, CA Member No.: 149 Region Association: Northern California |
I remember seing a Formula Super VEE at the track one day with a 1600cc T-4 engine, 1.7L heads, dual solex carbs and no cooling fan...just air ducts to the cylinders and heads (not good for sitting in traffic) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
Someone who know these vintage VW race cars may be able to shed some light on that engine? |
alpha434 |
Mar 15 2006, 10:41 AM
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#10
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My member number is no coincidence. Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 16-December 05 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 5,280 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I've been pondering this one as well....
I've got this 1700 in my living room..... |
Jake Raby |
Mar 15 2006, 10:45 AM
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#11
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I have FSV experience. The engines are very similar to todays F production 914 engines, just a tad less displacement.
170HP is the norm from one, but you can't imagine what it costs to attain reliably. |
Mueller |
Mar 15 2006, 10:56 AM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
so Jake, I still have that 9610 camshaft I bought for my the motor I sold to Mark Henry.....think it'll work with a small bore motor?
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Jake Raby |
Mar 15 2006, 11:00 AM
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#13
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
for what kind of revs? What heads?
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Mueller |
Mar 15 2006, 11:09 AM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
stock 1.8 heads...they "can" be re-worked if need be (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) nothing too drastic RPM wise, 7K+ would be "neat" |
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McMark |
Mar 15 2006, 02:08 PM
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#15
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
If you buy 88 mm pistons/cylinders, how do the heads seal? Do they have that thick of a cylinder wall?
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Jake Raby |
Mar 15 2006, 02:37 PM
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#16
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I had LA sleeve make me some 88mm inserts for a bored out 94mm cylinder. I bored the ID to 98mm and then pr4essed the sleeve in... I worked for uncle sam at the time and had unlimited access to several million bucks worth of tools. :-)
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Mueller |
Mar 15 2006, 02:43 PM
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#17
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
i dunno...JB Weld?? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) |
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McMark |
Mar 15 2006, 06:03 PM
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#18
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Wouldn't increased wall thickness retain heat? Or is the increase negligible?
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davep |
Mar 15 2006, 06:15 PM
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#19
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914 Historian Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,148 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Burford, ON, N0E 1A0 Member No.: 1,244 Region Association: Canada |
I'd think the biggest problem with sleeving would be the heat transfer from the sleeve to the original cylinder wall. If some heat transfer compound was used between them, then most of that problem would go away. The added thickness of the cylinder wall would be a little less of a problem in my opinion.
Heat transfer is one of the blackest of the black arts, and one I deal with daily. |
Jake Raby |
Mar 15 2006, 06:45 PM
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#20
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I had no issues with it..
I used a normalizing process to fit the two together.. I chilled the sleeve with liquid nitrogen and heated the cylinder in the oven to about 500 degrees. I ended up with a few thou of crush and then rebored and honed the cylinder. Its amazing what you can do when you work in a Turbine engine shop :-) |
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