 OT: Tow Vehicle motors...good and bad thoughts on, Ford 460 versus Chevy 454 |
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| nine14cats |
 May 2 2006, 06:34 PM
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#1
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo  Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None  |
With the gas crunch on there are several tow vehicles coming up for sale that have low miles on them. Ford 460 versus Chevy 454. Anything to watch out for in the years between 1994 through 2004?
Diesel is good for towing but they still seem to command a premium. For the limited amount of trailer towing I do, gas is fine for me. Experiences and thoughts? Bill P. |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| propricer |
May 2 2006, 06:38 PM
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Member Group: Members Posts: 365 Joined: 16-April 04 From: Morgan Hill, CA Member No.: 1,938 |
Later diesels have much more towing power and substantially better gas mileage than gas engines.
Check out the specs before you buy ... |
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| DanT |
May 2 2006, 06:45 PM
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Bill, what do you need a big block for.
My Burb with the 5.3L and 4:10 gears will pull anything I need to pull. 8,000 lb RV etc. I have pulled 23 foot enclosed racecar trailers with race prepared 944 turbos etc with no problem at all... And when you aren't towing you will get much better mileage. Look for a year 2000 or newer Tahoe or Burb. Even 2 wheel drive would be OK. Then you could change the rear end gears easy if you couldnt find one with 4:10s 4:10s are the optional ratio and not many folks go the the trouble to wait for and order one, and most dealers don't stock them. Even a year 2000 or newer 3/4 ton Burb with the 6L would be good for the duty you are asking of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I thought you were going to keep your burb a bit longer? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) If you buy a diesel you will be paying much higher $$ for your fuel. Check the prices at the stations. Diesel in Norcal is running about the same as Premium or more. My Burb drinks 87 octane while pulling 8K pounds or more with no pinging or other problems. If you pay a premium for diesel you will never recoup your intitial price difference over gas, at the current prices of fuel. Even when factoring in the increased fuel mileage of the diesel over similar gas powered unit. |
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| Trekkor |
May 2 2006, 06:52 PM
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I get 14-17 MPG with my 7.3 liter turbo diesel no matter what is attached or in the bed.( It weighs 6800#'s empty. )
2001 F-350 crew cab, long bed, dually (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) I know you said "no diesel", but hey! KT |
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| Brian Mifsud |
May 2 2006, 06:54 PM
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Mechanical Engineer Group: Members Posts: 981 Joined: 3-March 03 From: Penngrove, CA Member No.: 384 Region Association: None |
For what it's worth, my buddy used to tow his boat to Tahoe almost every weekend during the summers with his Ford/460 for years and years. A mutual friend pulling a similar rig but driving a Chevy, had a smallblock 350. They both got identical fuel mileage... but the 460 didn't wear out as often. I think it boils down to for a given weight, you need a certain level of horsepower to climb.. no more, no less.
What is probably a bigger deal, is the condition of the transmission in either rig. They are built to tow, and most likely, have been doing exactly that so I'd pay to get the tranmissions analyzed inspected on either before I bought.. Just dropped $1500 on a complete rebuild + heavy duty cooler on my Turbo 350 and the truck is barely worth that much. |
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| DanT |
May 2 2006, 06:55 PM
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#6
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
As far as your actual question....here is what I have read and experienced.
460 backfiring due to leaking intake manifold gaskets, timing sets wear excessively, Older units have a very poor performance envelope. 454, problems with starter being overheated and failing by being too close to exhaust manifolds, problems with valve train. Both of these motors SUCK gas...big time. Dont expect any better than ~8 MPG solo or towing. Nomex on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) |
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| bd1308 |
May 2 2006, 06:58 PM
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Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501 |
I got talking with the AAA guy when he towed my car, and he has a Nissan FUSO? Box car, with teh diesel 4 cylinder engine. I was thinking a whimp engine, but he told me he tows "OTHER" towtrucks and such with no problem. If you buy from Nissan, they give you a three year *UNLIMITED MILEAGE* warranty, he says he does 20000 miles per month.
b |
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| Trekkor |
May 2 2006, 07:05 PM
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#8
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Little story on towing with my truck.
I used to go up to Lake Almanor with my 4500# boat and all our gear. There are some monster grades on the way up there once you get off I-5 out of Red Bluff. I'm following closely behind this guy in his Dodge 1500 and he pulls over to let me pass. I don't think he realized I was towing. Anyway, I'm sure he felt pretty small as I blew past him at speed and never saw him again. HUGE POWER.... all below 3000 rpms:o KT |
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| nine14cats |
May 2 2006, 07:15 PM
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Actually to be a little more precise....the motor goes into one of these.....
Diesels on these are big bucks....quite a few for sale at the moment for the price of a pick up.... Bill P. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Attached image(s) 
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| DanT |
May 2 2006, 07:18 PM
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#10
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Gee Trekkor he must have been dogging it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Last summer I was coming back from LA with my near 8K # RV and 6 people in the Burb. We start up Pacheco pass and come up on a Ford Excursion Diesel pulling a trailer smaller than mine. I caught him, passed him and never saw him again. Was he trying to keep up? Don't know. Was my truck pulling better than his? At that point apparently so, but was he trying to maintaine the speed limit? I was. It is all what you want and expect from your tow vehicle. All I know is that for a $5K difference in price. I can buy 87 octane for a long time even at $3 per gallon. Diesel trucks are very nice, if I was going to get one it would probably get the Dodge Cummings. Those big 18 wheelers have been using Cummings for years...probably for good reason, I suspect. I know it is not the same engine but Cummings has been building some long lasting diesels for years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| DanT |
May 2 2006, 07:21 PM
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#11
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
OK Bill. That unit appears to be a Ford Chassis so it must be older than like 1998?
460 with a C6 tranny? About 29-30 feet? Look for low miles....that looks to be a pretty nice unit. Expect about 7-9MPG max. |
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| nine14cats |
May 2 2006, 07:24 PM
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#12
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
This unit is a 1996 but I not for sale here in the bay area....
I have heard the issues on the 460...I was wondering what years got better. Bill P. |
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| DanT |
May 2 2006, 07:34 PM
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#13
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
The last couple of years before they changed to the V10 were pretty good. They were FI by then so some of the carb issues and intake manifold issues were solved. As far as the timing set....?
Bill try here www.hanselrv.com |
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| messix |
May 2 2006, 08:09 PM
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#14
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
i have a '99 chevy 1 ton crew cab, i tow at least 10k lb of toy hauler / jeep, fuel water and tool. i pull the pass's around here at 65 -70, get 7-8 mpg towing and 10 unloaded around town. i have had no problems with my truck at all.
i would prefer a diesel, pull away power is better [from stop] fuel economy now that fuel is +$3 a gal. if you figure a 20-30 % better fuel econ. you'll be ahead. |
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| messix |
May 2 2006, 08:12 PM
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#15
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ May 2 2006, 06:34 PM)  The last couple of years before they changed to the V10 were pretty good. They were FI by then so some of the carb issues and intake manifold issues were solved. As far as the timing set....? Bill try here www.hanselrv.com our fleet mechanics don't like the v10. problems, problems. they say their built a little to "lite" duty, all the power is higher in the rev range. |
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| bondo |
May 2 2006, 08:14 PM
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#16
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Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
I know certain recent Ford truck V8s are known for blowing out their spark plugs. I have no idea which engines are affected, but find out and don't get one of those. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| Allan |
May 2 2006, 08:14 PM
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#17
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Teenerless Weenie Group: Members Posts: 8,373 Joined: 5-July 04 From: Western Mesopotamia Member No.: 2,304 Region Association: Southern California |
Go for the smallest diesel you can find. Most of the energy is used during the start so why not utilize the cruise savings???
Stay away from the big motors, either offered by Ford or GM, it's a waste of money...... |
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| Allan |
May 2 2006, 08:17 PM
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#18
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Teenerless Weenie Group: Members Posts: 8,373 Joined: 5-July 04 From: Western Mesopotamia Member No.: 2,304 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(bondo @ May 2 2006, 07:14 PM) I know certain recent Ford truck V8s are known for blowing out their spark plugs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Spark plugs??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I love ya Royce... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) |
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| bondo |
May 2 2006, 08:54 PM
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#19
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Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(Headrage @ May 2 2006, 07:17 PM) QUOTE(bondo @ May 2 2006, 07:14 PM) I know certain recent Ford truck V8s are known for blowing out their spark plugs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Spark plugs??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I love ya Royce... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) Yes.. i'm talking about gas engines.. which is what he was asking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It's not my fault the diesel contingent hijacked the thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) |
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| Porcharu |
May 2 2006, 09:46 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
My parents had an RV about that size, it was an 86 Ford 460 - the last year before FI. After we swapped the intake manifold and the cam it was OK. Milage went from 5 to 6-1/2 7MPG.
My F-350 crewcab 4x4 diesel has never got less than 15.1MPG (whole tank all 10 mile commutes) On the highway it gets a consistant 20.5MPG, towing a small trailer about 18MPG. It's also smog exempt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) and can melt the rear tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) I'm running biodiesel now that it costs about the same. |
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