 Body filler, Do NOT use plastic |
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| tdgray |
 Oct 2 2003, 08:39 AM
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#1
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Thank God Nemo is not here to see this  Group: Members Posts: 9,705 Joined: 5-August 03 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 984 Region Association: None  |
Here is prime example of 1) how not to fix a rust spot. 2) NEVER NEVER NEVER use plastic body fillers. I'm sure at one time this was a small hole or rust spot that was fixed with plastic filler (Bondo and the like). Plastic fillers attract water and hold it thereby rusting any and all unprotected metal underneath. Not to mention that this was a very poor repair job in the first place.
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Replies(1 - 19)
| jonwatts |
Oct 2 2003, 09:49 AM
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#2
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no rules, just wrong Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,321 Joined: 13-January 03 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 141  |
Uh, so what are you supposed to use, lead?
Plastic body fillers are just talcum powder mixed with resin for the most part so, yes, the talc will soak up moisture if allowed to. The problem is not with the body filler, it's with the prep work that allowed moisture to get to it after the job was done. |
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| thesey914 |
Oct 2 2003, 10:03 AM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,155 Joined: 1-January 03 From: Staffordshire -England Member No.: 66 |
I agree.....looks like that sail panel had a hole that someone used filler in order cover it up. Had all the rust been cut out and welded up it would still be sound.
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| tdgray |
Oct 2 2003, 10:15 AM
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#4
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Thank God Nemo is not here to see this Group: Members Posts: 9,705 Joined: 5-August 03 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 984 Region Association: None |
I am sorry that is what mainly meant, no filling holes with it. Just ranting. But I really don't like using it all. Maybe for a skim coat or final smoothing but that is all. Even with good prep and a great topcoat water is still trapped in it and it will shrink and rust.
For major build up or even small hole coverage I use a US Chemical product called All Metal. It is basically ground alluminum and resins. Totally impervious to water, super strong but light weight and sands out smooth. I filled a extremely bad section of my MGA's front end with it after hammering out a large dent. Still holding up and no shrinkage! Rant over. Now back to the garage with that screwdriver looking for more rust holes to poke through (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Todd |
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| Queenie |
Oct 2 2003, 10:39 AM
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#5
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Society Is A Hole Group: Members Posts: 383 Joined: 14-July 03 From: SLO-CA Member No.: 908 |
Bondo can't possibly be a worse option than the concoction my friend Lynn once used to fix up her early Beetle: sawdust and white glue.
No, I'm not joking. I mean, hats off to the girl for doing her own bodywork, but...yeah. Sawdust and white glue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (The Beetle, which she still owns, has subsequently had proper bodywork done to it and looks great.) |
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| Katmanken |
Oct 2 2003, 10:52 AM
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#6
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Not all Bondo's are equal.
I use a brand called Evercoat that sells some products that mix styrene with the Bondo to produce a WATERPROOF material. Read the can to see if it is waterproof. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) Ken |
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| Queenie |
Oct 2 2003, 10:56 AM
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#7
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Society Is A Hole Group: Members Posts: 383 Joined: 14-July 03 From: SLO-CA Member No.: 908 |
QUOTE(kwales @ Oct 2 2003, 08:52 AM) Read the can to see if it is waterproof. RTFM...what a novel idea! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| tracks914 |
Oct 2 2003, 05:58 PM
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#8
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Canadian Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,083 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Timmins, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 153 Region Association: None |
Water proof and proper prep work is a must. Glass bead or sand blast all rust out. Clean with paint thinner and prime with 2 part epoxy primer base coat within 1 hour. After that you can use just about any bondo type material you want. Just don't put the bondo on the bare or rusty metal.It will never stick long. Biggest concern from here is, wait long enough for it (bondo) to completely dry before final sanding and painting. It will shrink and ruin a good paint job if you try to rush.
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| URY914 |
Oct 2 2003, 06:01 PM
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#9
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 120,967 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
If you go to a marine supply store, they also have waterproof bondo products with thier fiberglass stuff.
Paul |
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| GWN7 |
Oct 2 2003, 06:30 PM
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#10
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
The guy that had the body shop next to my ex bro-in-laws used to prep cars for a auction house. For fast rust repair he used spray foam in a can. Beats welding up a hole anytime. He also used to stuff newspapers in the hole before spraying the foam.
Note: always check the body out with a magnet when buying a used car/truck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| Katmanken |
Oct 2 2003, 07:04 PM
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#11
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Oh great!
Spray foam in a can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) VW and Porsche used that stuff in "select" areas of their cars (for stiffness, soundproofing and extra strength) and both my 73 Superbug and 74 914 rusted from the inside out from that stuff. I have suspicions that as it ages, it outgasses or undergoes a chemical change and reacts with bare steel. Result: Rust! I also think Karmann is german for rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Ken |
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| Queenie |
Oct 2 2003, 08:59 PM
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#12
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Society Is A Hole Group: Members Posts: 383 Joined: 14-July 03 From: SLO-CA Member No.: 908 |
QUOTE(kwales @ Oct 2 2003, 05:04 PM) Several years ago, I made a windchime out of keys. I used a couple of standard house-type keys, a drum key, and an old Volkswagen key that has the round cut-out VW logo on it. The VW key is completely covered with rust while the other keys are all still silver. |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut |
Oct 2 2003, 09:10 PM
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#13
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914 Ronin - 914 owner who lost his 914club.com Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Beaverton, Oregon Member No.: 584 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(kwales @ Oct 2 2003, 05:04 PM) Oh great! Spray foam in a can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) VW and Porsche used that stuff in "select" areas of their cars (for stiffness, soundproofing and extra strength) and both my 73 Superbug and 74 914 rusted from the inside out from that stuff. I have suspicions that as it ages, it outgasses or undergoes a chemical change and reacts with bare steel. Result: Rust! I also think Karmann is german for rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Ken Nope, it just collects moisture/water/debris. |
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| thesey914 |
Oct 3 2003, 01:09 AM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,155 Joined: 1-January 03 From: Staffordshire -England Member No.: 66 |
QUOTE(tracks914 @ Oct 2 2003, 03:58 PM) Glass bead or sand blast all rust out. Clean with paint thinner and prime with 2 part epoxy primer base coat within 1 hour. Is that 2 pack primer that is hazardous to health? Is there a good primer that is able to be sprayed without breathing apparatus (like in my garage)?? I was just going to etch prime and then use normal grey primer then filler -after blasting all the black pitting away back to good metal |
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| GWN7 |
Oct 3 2003, 01:21 AM
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#15
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
If your spraying anything, use a good quailty filter mask. Your bodyshop supply house can supply you with a good one. They are not expensive. Get the replaceable canister type.
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| tdgray |
Oct 3 2003, 06:23 AM
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#16
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Thank God Nemo is not here to see this Group: Members Posts: 9,705 Joined: 5-August 03 From: Akron, OH Member No.: 984 Region Association: None |
The two pack primers (product + catalyst) are extremely hazardous to your health and should not be used without a GOOD respirator, proper ventilation and even eye protection. Gerson makes the best diaposable respirators. If you are going to do this in your garage seal off every opening to the house (if attached). I even seal off the garage door with plastic, cut holes in it and stick several box fans in the holes to suck out the fumes. Not great for the environment but at least your not rebreathing it the rest of the time your in the garage.
After I hit the Loto I will put in a proper paint booth but until then its plastic and fans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Oh and BTW there are fillers out there that can be put directly on the metal surface and will stick just fine (All Metal is one). My favorite primer is made by Claussen, its called z-chrome and always "dry" your body work in the sun for at least four to six hours. This will help shrink the plastic filler so that is does not contract as much under the paint. Happy Sanding (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Todd |
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| GWN7 |
Oct 3 2003, 11:36 AM
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#17
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
I have a huge exaust fan mounted in the eve of my garage. It's big enough to suck the entrance door shut. The PO put it in. First time I used it, I had fired up the wood stove and had some smoke in the garage. Thought I'd turn the fan on to get rid of it. I had flames shooting out the draft hole in the stove almost 3' long. It pulled all the air and smoke out of the stove, filling the garage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Make sure you have enough fresh air coming in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| jnp914 |
Oct 3 2003, 12:41 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 19-August 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 1,046 |
giggle...snarf!
Tim Taylor lives |
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| Katmanken |
Oct 3 2003, 01:35 PM
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#19
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Actually, I don't think that the foam just collects moisture/water/debreis. I think it chemically reacts with steel.
The reason that I say that is my 73 Superbeetle rusted between the rear window and the side window and in the storage area under the rear window. It rusted from the inside out and only where there was foam. I never had any moisture inside the car - but there was expanded foam! Ken |
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| GWN7 |
Oct 4 2003, 12:22 AM
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#20
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
The clue to that is "expanded foam"....it's open cell foam. Which means that the cells are open and will absorb moisture over time. Closed cell foam is used in construction (the blue stuff) and costs 2X as much as open cell. It's used where it will come in contact with water. Below grade or sideing.
The open cell stuff works like a sponge, absording moisture out of the air and realising it against the metal. I had to replace the floor in my boat last yr. The manufacture used open cell spray in foam for floatation. It had absorbed water over the yrs and weighed about 300 lbs, not to mention causing the floor to rot from the underside. I tore it all out and replaced it with cut sheets of the blue SM stuff. New decking and carpet, good for another 10 yrs. |
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