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> Houston... we have a problem. Could be the end of my FFC run, not sure what to look at now
tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 07:38 AM
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OK so last weekend I changed out my injectors with some known good injectors. The old ones looked very bad and I was thinking that they were the cause of my running rich. I also went back to a colder plug (NGK) as I was worried about running the Bosch Plats figuring they were too hot.

Well it appears that did not fix the problem. I think I loaded up the plugs again (wife is bringing SP wrench and old plats to me at lunch time). Car was bucking and missing all over the place. Barely made it to work. All wires are connected injectors firing good spark to all cylinders etc.

If I can't figure this out I am not going to risk a 200 + mile trip.

Here is what I know is good or what I've done do far.

MPS is good - holds vac rebuilt by Geoff.

Cold start valve unhooked and bypassed

Injectors changed to known good injectors.

All vac hoses are brand new.

Ignition is pertronix with a pertonix coil. Car starts up immediatley.

Good fuel pressure - right at 29 lbs. Inline gauge never waivers.


What am I missing... this thing is still puking black smoke occasionally and smells very rich.

Where should I look now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


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drewvw
post Oct 3 2006, 07:43 AM
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CHT sensor jumped out at me. Have the wife get you a voltmeter so you can measure the resistance when hot and cold for that guy.


whats the idle situation like when cold and warm?
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 07:46 AM
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Forgot to add that one to the list.

CHT is brand new.

No difference either hot or cold. Runs the same.

I have this feeling that I will change these cold plugs out and put the Plats back in and it will run as it did before.

Problem is... there is still something wrong and it will only be a temp fix.
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SGB
post Oct 3 2006, 07:47 AM
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I've got carbs, so this is a stretch, but you seem to have covered averything in the FI system. Did you change the fuel filter? My car sorta suddenly began to run like crap after having been up on jack stands on the drivers side only. I decided to replace my less-than-a-year-old fuel filter last night and poured all kinds of RUST out!! Have you ever cleaned out your tank? I had not, but I will be soon. Suggestion- Check fuel filter before you replace those plugs again.
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bd1308
post Oct 3 2006, 07:51 AM
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Trigger points...I'll find a good set of mine and send them out to you for free. I'll bet yours are W-O-R-N. I'd like to meet more people in person on this club, and if it only costs me spare parts, than so be it.

I'll need your address. These things just pop in. Instead of messing up your timing when you remove the dizzy, just remove the 13mm bolt and pull the whole dizzy + that locking bracket, so you keep your timing. The trigger points just pop in. See they get worn and send multiple pulses to the ECU, so it thinks to fire the injectors like 3 times instead of just once.
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 08:27 AM
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Good suggestion Britt.

Thats one place I have not looked at yet.

PM coming.


Another thought... I adjusted the valves when I have the motor out of the car. I used the Capn's method.

Could I have F'd the procedure up and could this make the car run like this? I'm graspings here I know.

Oh and other things. Timing is dead on. Idles at 850-900 like it should.
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Bartlett 914
post Oct 3 2006, 09:23 AM
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QUOTE(tdgray @ Oct 3 2006, 06:27 AM) *

Good suggestion Britt.

Thats one place I have not looked at yet.

PM coming.


Another thought... I adjusted the valves when I have the motor out of the car. I used the Capn's method.

Could I have F'd the procedure up and could this make the car run like this? I'm graspings here I know.

Oh and other things. Timing is dead on. Idles at 850-900 like it should.


I don't think that valve adjustment will make it run rich but I could be wrong. If in doubt, do a compression check. I adjusted my valves on Sunday because I had the HE's off. I wanted to use some of the methods that were suggested. I still found the simplest method was to remove the plugs rotate the motor until a valve was fully depressed and then adjust the opposite valve. With out the plugs, the motor turns easy and you only look at one thing at a time. It just means more cranking.

I am 90 percent ready for FFC. I hope to see you there

Mark

Mark
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 10:17 AM
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Good idea on the compression check also... could have a lazy cylinder.

Other than the rich problem... seems to run great.

Oh well... keep up the suggestions boys.

Wifey should be here any minute so I can change out those plugs.

Man am I hungry... no way to go get lunch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)
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bob174
post Oct 3 2006, 11:06 AM
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I was having a similar problem and new trigger points fixed it. Mine was idling poorly with a clear miss at idle. When I was diagnosing the problem, removing wire connector from the injectors on cylinders 1 and 4 made no change in the way the car ran. This is what finally keyed me in on the trigger points. The points ohmed out fine with a meter, but weren't working when the car was running. Also, I put in new injectors like you did. Not too long after I put them in, I had one go bad (bad miss which I again diagnosed by sequentially pulling the wire connectors off the injectors).

Like you, the trigger point problem was providing a symptom of the odor of unburnt fuel, and bad miss/bucking.
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Bleyseng
post Oct 3 2006, 11:22 AM
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temp sensor 1 unplug or not working?
Pull a vacuum on the MPS to make sure its not leaking.

Pull the injectors and look at each spray pattern as it should be a nice fan not a stream nor leaking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 11:52 AM
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Ok put the Platinums back in.

Runs OK... but still rich as hell... gonna limp her home and dig into it again.

Geoff I'll check the MPS tonight.

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bd1308
post Oct 3 2006, 01:08 PM
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TS1 when disconnected runs about 10% more rich...

most likely not the issue, cause rich as hell was not my experience when i unplugged my TS1.

Extra injection pulses = extra fuel = rich.

Give me your address, if they dont go out tomorrow I wont be able to get them to you in time.

b
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Heeltoe914
post Oct 3 2006, 01:16 PM
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Maybe try and change out fuel filter and check all grounds. Did you check fuel pressure under load? I run 32psi.
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nomore9one4
post Oct 3 2006, 01:23 PM
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Todd, sit back and have a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) I am sure it will fix itself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) You will get it running for sure. I have no doubt! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 02:35 PM
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Fuel PSI is at 31 was running 29 but I bumped it up after the stumbling this AM.

Will turn it back down when I get home.

Fuel filter is new as is the fuel pump (MSD aftermarket).

I'm going for the trigger points and checking the MPS. After that well SH&T I'm outa idears.

Time for a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) when I get home.


Some good news today. Wifey called and said my new capliers arrived today. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)
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Aaron Cox
post Oct 3 2006, 02:56 PM
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if you are fouling the colder plugs.. why not use a stock heatrange..

NGK b6es are 2 bucks each. and 20 minutes to install.... use em.
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Oct 3 2006, 04:56 PM) *

if you are fouling the colder plugs.. why not use a stock heatrange..

NGK b6es are 2 bucks each. and 20 minutes to install.... use em.



Those WERE NGK b6es (if I remeber the # correctly). $1.77 each


Got her home... the Plats did the job but I could tell they were fouling up as I drove.

Here's my theory.

I had weak to poor injectors in there. They were just barley doing thier job. Now that I have tested good injectors in there I think I am pumping even more fuel.

I hanging my hat on the trigger points right now. Gonna pull the dizzy and see what's going on.

Thanks Guys... as usual... still learning
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bd1308
post Oct 3 2006, 04:43 PM
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OR i bet maybe your timing is uber FUBAR'd maybe from sticking advance plates.

Either way, I'll get those trigger points out to you.

I'll also bring my core dizzy's and If I need to build or clean one up for you, I will
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bd1308
post Oct 3 2006, 04:45 PM
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and if the trigger points dont solve it, you have some extras. Either way, we'll get it working and you should bring your ride to FFC.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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tdgray
post Oct 3 2006, 05:48 PM
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Gonna give it hell Britt... get those babies to me and I will reward you handsomely (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have new calipers to install... new rear shocks which should be here shortly and this whole running rich thing.

... I've got 9 days... no freakin problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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