 Reviving a 73 914!?, Rebuild on a dead engine |
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| Natedog |
 Nov 16 2003, 11:28 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 20-October 03 From: Fort Collins, CO Member No.: 1,265  |
Hey!
I'm new to the board and new to Porsches! Pretty damn excited about both! I've been into VW T3 Squarebacks for the past few years. I came across a good deal on a 914 and planned on popping the engine in my Square. But then I got kind of attached to the 914!! It's not running now; it has in the past; and IT WILL AGAIN! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) First off - is this bulletin board the kind of place I can throw out questions and get some friendly help? Quick description - 1973 Porsche 914 4-cylinder Dual Weber 44 IDF's Two historical fires, hence the current Webers Has been parked outside for about 4 years, some rust Quick diagnosis - Engine will not make a complete turn. Hits a solid spot and just won't move! Just pulled engine and tranny today. Crud visible in #3 intake manifold, possible rust? Tranny turns fine Quick question - How do I turn the crank? I can grab the fan and turn but there has to be a better way! I plan on getting this baby up and running again! I'm curious to see how it rides compared to my Squareback. Thanks in advance for your help! Nate Peterson 1973 914-4 1973 VW Squareback Fort Collins CO |
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Replies(1 - 15)
| GWN7 |
Nov 16 2003, 11:42 PM
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#2
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Welcome to the board.
Pull the plugs. Squirt in some "Marvel Mystery Oil" into each cylinder hole. Does it hit the "stop" spot both ways when spinning the engine by hand? You can check which cylinder is the trouble one by looking at the rotor position under the cap. Sorry, no usable help or information is available here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Nov 16 2003, 11:45 PM
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#3
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Welcome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)
don't turn it over! take the heads off, start on the pass. side (#3). you might have a valve (or it's remains) preventing the engine to turn over completely. you sound like you have some VW experience, this is very similar to the T1 or T3. is it a 2.0L? pictures? (we always like pictures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) taking the heads off is intuitive EXCEPT that one damm sheetmetal screw on the underside of the head. you have to get that one or the head won't come off. also, it's always a good idea to keep all parts together, use zip-ties to keep the rockers and all attached nuts and washers together. mark them so you remember which cylinder they came from. also, the pushrod tubes slide out towards you BEFORE you take the head off. take closeup pics of the heads and the pistons/cylinders and post them here. Andy |
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| Dave_Darling |
Nov 17 2003, 11:13 AM
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#4
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,200 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California 
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Aaah, as long as you have the under-cylinder tin unfastened, you can just pull the heads and the pushrod tubes will come loose then. BTDT. Kinda messy, though!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) After banging up my fingers the first three times I pulled the pushrod tubes, the last time I didn't bother. Much easier to pull the tubes off of the head and out of the case once the head is off. Or at least, less painful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
--DD |
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| SirAndy |
Nov 17 2003, 12:36 PM
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#5
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,257 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Nov 17 2003, 09:13 AM) After banging up my fingers the first three times I pulled the pushrod tubes, the last time I didn't bother. Much easier to pull the tubes off of the head and out of the case once the head is off. Or at least, less painful. you have to "turn" them first. wiggle, then pull. just did 2 engine teardowns lascht weekend and NO bloody knuckles! Andy |
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| Ferg |
Nov 17 2003, 12:42 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,948 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 116 Region Association: None
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Welcome to the board, I see you are in Fort Collins, there is a bunch of us down here in denver. Go to yahoo groups and search under colorado 914 and sign up. There are some good guys there as well, that don't check this board. Also, you get it running, we often get together for drives, ec.t
Ferg. |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Nov 17 2003, 12:49 PM
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#7
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,339 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Welcome to the board Nate. You will find lots of useful and also useless info here. You've already recieved some good advice. Get that motor running and put it back where it came from. One drive and you'll be hooked. There is no comparison in the handling of the two cars. There are some guys in your area that can be of help also.
Good luck and again, welcome |
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| Natedog |
Nov 17 2003, 01:05 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 20-October 03 From: Fort Collins, CO Member No.: 1,265 |
WOW!
Thanks for all the help, and so quickly! I'll get some pictures up this week. When I turn the engine by hand I can see each intake valve open and close. So I guess those aren't stuck.....? Perhaps it's one of the exhaust valves.... or one of the pistons?? Cheers, Nate 73 914 73 T3 Squareback (see attached picture) Attached image(s) 
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 17 2003, 04:40 PM
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#9
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,542 Joined: 1-February 03 From: Corona, CA Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
wheres the 914??? we dont need no stinkin squarebacks!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) , notchbacks are better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
EDIT: and welcome to the board my friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) This post has been edited by acox914: Nov 17 2003, 04:40 PM |
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| Natedog |
Nov 18 2003, 07:59 AM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 20-October 03 From: Fort Collins, CO Member No.: 1,265 |
Well I'll be damned!!!
I put some Marvel's Mystery Oil in the there and it's freed up!! I can now freely turn the engine either direction!! Is there an easier way to turn the engine than by grabbing the fan? On my Squareback I can use a screwdriver on the fan because there are notches designed for that. I must comment - Notches are cool, for sure. But I get a kick out of driving my Square here in Colorado. There are so many yuppie types driving the latest VW/Audi/Subaru/???? Sports Wagons!!! I love cruising past them in my 30 year old VW! All the while knowing that I built the car from the ground up, get better gas mileage, and paid about 1/10 the price! Here's a picture of the 914. More pictures later.... Cheers, Nate Attached image(s) 
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| GWN7 |
Nov 18 2003, 12:57 PM
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#11
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Congrats. Glad it was the easy fix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
If you still have the trans and motor together you could use the starter to spin the engine over. There is a thread on here which shows an engine being run while out of the car on a pallet. Car looks good. Post some more pictures when you have the chance. |
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| Natedog |
Nov 22 2003, 11:49 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 20-October 03 From: Fort Collins, CO Member No.: 1,265 |
Hey all!
I've made it to the next step towards reviving my 914. The engine is out, all tin off, fan house off, heads and cylinders too! This is the most I have ever dismantled an engine! Always had a good one running I guess. So it all looks pretty good except the #3 cylinder/head. There was water in the crankcase when I drained it and it looks like the water entered via #3! The inside of the cylinder was full of nasty brown sticky fluid - kinda chunky too. The insides of the crankcase look fine - as well as I can see in there! See picture below..............the blue arrows point to rust on the rocker arm assemeblies. The orange arrows point to the nasty ooze I found when I removed the head. What do I do now!?!?!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) 1. My inclination is to take the heads, cylinders and pistons to a machine shop for cleaning and inspection. If #3 needs to be replaced, can I replace only one of the cylinders? 2. How big of a deal is it that I had all that water in the crankcase? About 3-4 cups of water drained out of the bottom of the case when I removed the bolt. 3. Is there anything that I can do to the transmission as long as it is out? I have now idea what kind of condition it is in! I guess it looks well enough! 4. What parts MUST be replaced when the engine is torn down this far? What parts would be wise to replace? Seems like a good time to replace the piston rings, connecting rod seals, any other random gaskets???????????? My hope is that I can get all the parts that I've torn off the car cleaned up, refurbished, put back in the right place and get on the road! Thanks in advance for your help! Cheers, Nate 73 914 73 Square Fort Collins CO Attached image(s) 
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| skline |
Nov 23 2003, 08:03 AM
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#13
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
Looks like you got yourself a 2.0 liter looking at the head. The best choice in the type 4 VW motors. Take the heads in and have them checked for cracks, it is common between the valves and at the spark plug. Easy fix though. Yes, you can replace just one P/C but since it has carbs already, you could upgrade to 96's or even bigger. The 96's just slip right in. While you got it apart, you could even upgrade the camshaft if it wasnt changed out with the carbs. FI cams are different than the carb cams. Good luck with it. They are way more fun than a type 3. And do not use a screw driver to turn the fan as the blades will break real easy. The maximum broken would be 3 fins and then they tell you to replace it. The fans are also different from engine to engine meaning a 1.7 will fit but the marks are different.
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| skline |
Nov 23 2003, 08:15 AM
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#14
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
Get a complete gasket set as you will use them at one point or another, you could just clean up what you have and replace the rings and run it. I found that if you want it to last, do not take shortcuts. Do it right and then you wont have to worry about it. At minimum, get the heads checked, clean everything up real good, replace the rings and cylinder and head gaskets and of course all the push rod tube seals and valve cover gaskets. Put it all back together and run it. However, with the water in the case, you have no way of knowing if the bearinds were submerged in water for the past 4 years. That I am sure would not do them any good. You have it this far, I would just do a total tear down and make sure. Do not have the case align bored like a type 1 or 2. They do not need it as they have the case through bolts they do not stretch like the others. If the PO put the carbs on, find out if he changed the cam. If he did not, it will run but not as well as it could. I would suggest at least a Web 86a cam to go with your carbs. Clean everything up on the outside also. I just did my engine and installed it yesterday in the car. I will be starting it up today. Here is a picture of my 2270 ready to be bolted in.
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| skline |
Nov 23 2003, 08:17 AM
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#15
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
Here is another from a different view.
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| Natedog |
Nov 23 2003, 01:15 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 20-October 03 From: Fort Collins, CO Member No.: 1,265 |
Man that's sweet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
I want one!! Thanks alot for your advice! I do indeed have a 2.0 with Weber 44 IDFs for carbs. Quick history....original FI setup busted and caught fire. New carbs installed....busted...caught fire. New, New carbs (the 44 IDFs) and it ran well for a few years. When the 44's went on the PO says he did a total rebuild(?). Then it sat outside with a shotty tarp for 4 years. I'll try to get some more specifics on what he did. Where can I find some prices on the 96's that you suggested? I assume these are bigger cylinders/pistons. Would I have to upgrade the heads then too? I won't turn the engine by the fan blades again, I promise. But how do you turn the engine when it is in the car?? On the bench is easy enough, but, for example, I'm still stumped on how I would turn the engine while doing a tune up! What more can you suggest about the Web 86a cam?? My goals right now are to get it going on the cheap. But eventually look into racing it on a track!! I think it would be a blast! Your engine looks FANTASTIC!!! What kind of paint did you use on the tin? I'll be painting mine orange to match the body. Thanks again for your help and inspiration! I'm going to make a print of your engine for my shop wall Attached is a general picture of the engine and tranny. Is there anything that I should do to the tranny? Cheers, Nate Attached image(s) 
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