Tough cold-starts w/chokeless Webers..., any secrets from you northerners? Options

[PinetreePorsche]

My 2.0 w/ Webers will fire, catch for an instant,and die. Each re-start, the instant stretches out, till, on the 4th try, it runs for maybe one second, and the 6th or 7th it goes for 2-3 sec, and maybe the 10th or 12th, it will stay running with lots of artful foot flutter on the gas. Less artful and it dies--until it has had about 15-20 sec of uninterrupted running with the foot flutter. Even then it needs just a slightly high rev, like 1800 (hate to do that when it's still cold), then, after another half min, I can let the foot off the pedal and it'll stay running. Then, maybe another 15 sec, I can lift my clutch foot and not have the extra load of the heavy oil kill it again (maybe keeping the revs at 1000 with my foot). Finally, after 2 min total I can get underway, if I over-rev it pulling away in 1st. Still, it will back-fart a bit if I gas it too much after a shift to too low a rev. By 5 min, as the heat starts to come out on the glass, it gets more normal. SO: you far northerners with carbs --what can I do with choke-less Webers to make this a kinder, gentler process? (Yes, if there's salt on the roads --last 3 weeks here-- I leave it at home. But the warm and rain are coming for 2-3 days, so it will get out again, and I'd love to do right by it.)

[type47]

maybe a block heater? you know, the type you can use in the dipstick tube. what type of cam? maybe you can go back to d-jet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . glad i have L and D-jet, starts no problem with a cold start injector... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) although i will admit they have been undertarp with the recent weather but have been pleased at ease of start when it was cold.

by the way, the first tech inspection by the pca potomac is this coming saturday in fairfax, 9-2. you should drop by.

[r_towle]

My 2.0 w/ Webers will fire, catch for an instant,and die. Each re-start, the instant stretches out, till, on the 4th try, it runs for maybe one second, and the 6th or 7th it goes for 2-3 sec, and maybe the 10th or 12th, it will stay running with lots of artful foot flutter on the gas. Less artful and it dies--until it has had about 15-20 sec of uninterrupted running with the foot flutter. Even then it needs just a slightly high rev, like 1800 (hate to do that when it's still cold), then, after another half min, I can let the foot off the pedal and it'll stay running. Then, maybe another 15 sec, I can lift my clutch foot and not have the extra load of the heavy oil kill it again (maybe keeping the revs at 1000 with my foot). Finally, after 2 min total I can get underway, if I over-rev it pulling away in 1st. Still, it will back-fart a bit if I gas it too much after a shift to too low a rev. By 5 min, as the heat starts to come out on the glass, it gets more normal. SO: you far northerners with carbs --what can I do with choke-less Webers to make this a kinder, gentler process? (Yes, if there's salt on the roads --last 3 weeks here-- I leave it at home. But the warm and rain are coming for 2-3 days, so it will get out again, and I'd love to do right by it.)

Clean the idle jets.
Sound like dirty jets.

When you start it, let it sit still for 2 minutes minimum at idle.
It will cough a bit, but it should sit at idle if properly tuned, and all jets are clean, the right size.

Check in this order.
points/condensor (important that the points are perfect this time of year.)
Valves adjusted.
new plugs.
All jets are clean, all jets are the right size (look at plugs when you replace them, they should be the brown of a perfectly coked marshmellow)

Use premium gas, and dont let it sit so long that the tank has really old gas in it.
Add gas antifreeze.

In the real cold, they will be a bit hard to start, but you are experiencing a car that is out of tune, and dirty jets...all rolled into one.

It gets pretty cold up here, and I just tune the car twice a year, and when I tune a car, I replace all the consumables...plugs, point, rotor, condensor...
Sometimes I replace wires
yearly I replace the distributor cap...it gets corroded on the inside.

So, twice yearly tune up. new parts only...they are cheap
Once yearly wires and cap replacement

I think a tune up costs like 30 bucks total...twice a year...big deal.
I assume you have no chokes on the carbs...you dont need them if you have some patience (2min) and wait each time you start it cold.

Rich

[jd74914]

maybe a block heater? you know, the type you can use in the dipstick tube. what type of cam? maybe you can go back to d-jet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . glad i have L and D-jet, starts no problem with a cold start injector... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) although i will admit they have been undertarp with the recent weather but have been pleased at ease of start when it was cold.

by the way, the first tech inspection by the pca potomac is this coming saturday in fairfax, 9-2. you should drop by.

My car had a block heater (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It went right under the oil sump and was quite the interesting contraption. It got float tested though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[adamfl]

I had a similar issue with my 1.7 w/ 2x40idfs when I first got the car, which had been sitting for 2yrs or so. It turned out the accelerator jets were completley gummed up. Cleaned them out and now after one pump of the gas the car fires right up on the first try, even if it's freezing out.

I'm looking forward to some rain here this week to clean off the roads so I can get out this weekend!

Adam

[Spoke]

I have dual IDF40's on my 1.7L and it is a bitch to get running in the morning. The car starts right up cold but needs constant throttle-blips to keep going.

Through the first 2 miles of operation, the car stutters a bit and runs better every moment until sufficiently warmed up.

Spoke

[pin31]

I've got the same problem starting when cold (74 2.0 w/40IDF).

Good suggestion on cleaning jets.

I just hate to mess with them (the car runs great). The car is new to me and I haven't messed with the carbs (if it aint broke....) and I'm a little apprehensive.

Any words of wisdom or tricks of the trade??

[mudfoot76]

Clean the idle jets.
Sound like dirty jets.

When you start it, let it sit still for 2 minutes minimum at idle.
It will cough a bit, but it should sit at idle if properly tuned, and all jets are clean, the right size.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I have a '73 2.0 w/44IDF, and it is tempermental when starting in the cold (40F and colder), but it will start and idle. I just let it sit for a couple of minutes and then the car is ready to motor without any drama.

[ClayPerrine]

I only have one thing to say.....



Carburetors = 70 year old perfume atomizer technology.

Weber Carburetors = Italian chokeless version of 70 year old perfume atomizer technology. (It doesn't get cold in Italy)


Electronic fuel injection = High tech, modern, computer controlled technology.



Put on Fuel Injection and be able to lean in the window and start the car cold in 20 degree weather. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


(Above does not apply to Mechanical Fuel Injection, it is friggin worse than carbs for cold start!)

[r_towle]

I only have one thing to say.....



Carburetors = 70 year old perfume atomizer technology.

Weber Carburetors = Italian chokeless version of 70 year old perfume atomizer technology. (It doesn't get cold in Italy)


Electronic fuel injection = High tech, modern, computer controlled technology.



Put on Fuel Injection and be able to lean in the window and start the car cold in 20 degree weather. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


(Above does not apply to Mechanical Fuel Injection, it is friggin worse than carbs for cold start!)

First off...clean them
Have patience when you start the car, and the 70 year old technology will still work fine.

and Clay...Show me a system, a total system, dollar for dollar the same that will produce the same results, I would be happy to do it.
When IC systems that cost 1-2k...and what, 100 hours to install and tune..hell give me carbs for a few more years...

BTW, I run stock FI on two motors..and I love it...starts fine.

But...when you want to change the cam,,,you are forced to buy either carbs or some outrageous home brewed system that could work, could suck...might need to spend 100 hours on some web site to learn how to spend 100 hours tuning it..

I can still go buy carbs, and bolt them on,,,without thinking...and enjoy the drive.

So (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

My personal opinion on carbs.. They suck.. both literally and figuratively.

Injection will make more HP than a carb, and it will do so with far better fuel mileage.

Yes, I have run both successfully on a type IV (before the six conversion).

I can show you how to put a GM FI unit, complete with DIS, on a Type IV and it will run. You will have to build your own harness, but it works great. Cost me about 500.00 in parts from a wrecking yard.



But, as I always say, It's your car, do what you want to it.

[jd74914]

My personal opinion on carbs.. They suck.. both literally and figuratively.

Injection will make more HP than a carb, and it will do so with far better fuel mileage.

Yes, I have run both successfully on a type IV (before the six conversion).

I can show you how to put a GM FI unit, complete with DIS, on a Type IV and it will run. You will have to build your own harness, but it works great. Cost me about 500.00 in parts from a wrecking yard.



But, as I always say, It's your car, do what you want to it.

Really . . . I'd be very very interested to see how you did that. That seems like a relatively quick and dirty way to get semi-modern FI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

[degreeoff]

Yeah mine was a bitch too. I got good at the artful throttle bit, I would turn on the ignition (hear my faucet pump run) and floor it to get gasoline in the bore then crank...(insert artful gas pedal) and in 20-30 seconds good to go....

I sure hope the six is better with the carbs then my 4 was.....

[KaptKaos]

Don't forget that there are FI parts that are NLA. This will only get worse. Carbs provide an alternative to that problem.

[BarberDave]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)


Wait till April 1s/t it'll start a lot better then.

Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[alpha434]

WD-40

[Eric_Shea]

MFI sucks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I have dual 40IDA3C's. For me this is a standard operating procedure when cold starting the car to keep it lubed up in the winter. My carbs. are like new.

1. Let the fuel pump run for a few seconds to fill the bowls (I don't start it often).

2. Pump 10 times.

3. Crank and feather the throttle.

[911quest]

Now you know why later carbed Prosches came with a hand throttle

[PinetreePorsche]

Now you know why later carbed Prosches came with a hand throttle

So is there a proceedure to put a cable-operated choke-like thing-y on our Webers, or would it be a whole different carb? -(s9igned) Pinetree--back again--and thanks for the tips, esp the jets, but I need instructions, too!

[Joe Bob]

Now you know why later carbed Prosches came with a hand throttle

Poorman's cruise control?