 Points and Dwell setting, Yes I forgot how...I know !!! YOU DUMBASS! |
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| Steve Thacker |
  Aug 3 2007, 10:50 AM
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#1
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH  Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest  |
I can't for the life of me rember how to set dwell properly on cars. I have been setting points since I was a teenager. I get this thing on a crane optical back when I first bought the car in 2000 and it went belly up last week.
I put in new points, cap, rotor ( non rev limited), condenser, sparkys, wires oh yea a new coil in the car before I began ( back to simple old skool). yea right.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Firing order on wires set to 1-4-3-2 CW. I set the points to .016 and I can get the car started. I put a digital meter on the + and - on the coil and got the car to start with some dizzy turning ( damn it is sensitive). Well... the dwell on the meter is showing 88.8 and yes it is set on dwell. I go back make sure the point shoe is straddling the lobe on the dizzy shaft and check the gap again. Still at 016. OK I'm good... Then I proceed to start the car up again and get my timing light in place to set the timing. I set the timing light dial to 27 degrees and point it at the timing whole and look for my marks. I have the old lady rev it up to 3500 and hold it steady (great gal she is). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I look for the white mark as I'm adjusting the dizzy and pull it into view and place it in the V notch. I have her take her foot off the pedal and I take over. Well...the damn car will not rev past 4k when it is floored! The throttle body butterfly is wide open and the car is laboring. Fuel pressure is at 29lbs and steady (Adjusted valves back a year ago and have only put 40 miles on the car) What gives...am I missing something simple here? Please help fellas I'm pulling my hair out. Must be halfziemers setting in. |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| Bartlett 914 |
Aug 3 2007, 11:01 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,216 Joined: 30-August 05 From: South Elgin IL Member No.: 4,707 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
What about the vacuum advance hose. Did you disconnect and block it when adjusting? Did you remember to reconnect it?
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| tod914 |
Aug 3 2007, 11:02 AM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,755 Joined: 19-January 03 From: Lincoln Park, NJ Member No.: 170 |
Set it to TDC on the number one cyl. so the lobe on the distrubutor shaft is at its maximum open possition. .016 in / .4 mm gap on the points. that should get it running. the dwell angle is 47 degrees + or - 3 degrees. no idea if this makes a difference but i grounded my dwell meter to the fan housing not on the coil itself. Steve, seems your dwell is off.
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 11:05 AM
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#4
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(Bartlett 914 @ Aug 3 2007, 01:01 PM)  What about the vacuum advance hose. Did you disconnect and block it when adjusting? Did you remember to reconnect it? Yup did that one. Darn near forgot though. |
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 11:07 AM
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#5
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(tod914 @ Aug 3 2007, 01:02 PM) Set it to TDC on the number one cyl. so the lobe on the distrubutor shaft is at its maximum open position. .016 in / .4 mm gap on the points. that should get it running. the dwell angle is 47 degrees + or - 3 degrees. I did those steps Tod and I didn't use a chopstick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Is there something else here I'm not doing? The damn car couldn't break the speed limit in a hospital zone. |
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| tod914 |
Aug 3 2007, 11:09 AM
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#6
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,755 Joined: 19-January 03 From: Lincoln Park, NJ Member No.: 170 |
you mentioined your dwell is at 88.8 seems abit off. try getting it closer to 47 and see if that helps. will effect your timing mark if its off.
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 11:12 AM
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#7
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(tod914 @ Aug 3 2007, 01:09 PM) you mentioined your dwell is at 88.8 seems abit off. try getting it closer to 47 and see if that helps. will effect your timing mark if its off. Tod that is the goofy part. The meter shows 27 degrees during running. So, I reset the points to .012 to see if the dwell gets changed as it should... Am I correct in how to effect dwell? |
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| Bartlett 914 |
Aug 3 2007, 11:13 AM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,216 Joined: 30-August 05 From: South Elgin IL Member No.: 4,707 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Did you replace the spark plug wires? Possibly connect them wrong?
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 11:17 AM
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#9
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(Bartlett 914 @ Aug 3 2007, 01:13 PM) Did you replace the spark plug wires? Possibly connect them wrong? Yep new wires and I have them set on the dizzy at 1-4-3-2 CW I just pressed down on them right now to make sure they are seated. Nothing like live tuning and typing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) |
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| toomanyinkc |
Aug 3 2007, 11:47 AM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8-February 07 From: Kansas City Member No.: 7,509 |
Yes, you can set the timing correctly when the dwell is way off - that just leaves you with one problem instead of two, though. You must first set the dwell correctly. The dwell controls the length of time that the coil charges and discharges. Changing the dwell will change your timing, so check/reset it after you fix the dwell.
I'm surprised that the dwell could be that far off with the correct points gap. Does your reading need to be corrected according to the number of cylinders? |
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| tod914 |
Aug 3 2007, 12:05 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,755 Joined: 19-January 03 From: Lincoln Park, NJ Member No.: 170 |
You change the dwell by readjusting the points. The feeler gauge only gets it close. So you'll have to change your point gap slightly one way or the other to get your dwell set to 47 degrees. I think.. you'll have to widen it. Hope that helps. My dwell meter I have to doulbe the value on it. Good point Too.
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| Dr Evil |
Aug 3 2007, 12:19 PM
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#12
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 23,002 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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The smaller the gap the longer the dwell (time the points stay closed along the arc). If you open or close your gap you change when the points go off and thus change your timing, IIRC. Any help?
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| zymurgist |
Aug 3 2007, 12:39 PM
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#13
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"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None |
Dr. Evil,
Sounds about right to me! I have been chasing the exact same problem with Babydoll. Bought a dwell meter specifically to fix this problem. Symptoms were the same, no power, won't rev, dwell was way out (in the 80 range). Got the dwell set correctly and ballparked the timing (can't see the timing mark on the fan). IMO you're gonna be really lucky if you can hit it dead on 47. It's a matter of taking off the distributor cap, loosening the points, adjusting them ever so slightly, tightening, buttoning up the dizzy, starting the car, and checking the dwell setting with the engine running. Rinse and repeat. I hear that Babydoll once again has the same problem... I suspect that either the dwell is out again or an injector is not firing, and the car is 2 hours away from my house so it's a major deal for me to fix it. Sears has a nice digital dwell meter that also serves as a multimeter. |
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 12:40 PM
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#14
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Sorry,
I went in the house to get a samich Well. I have got the points re-tweeked. OK now I'm getting 46.5 is that close. I'm going to readjust the timing ( car wont start now ). I knew this was going to happen. The adjustment on these cars is so touchy! Just like brylcream - a little dab will do ya. I have to run and get something for the Mrs so she does'nt pop her cork. Then I can get back and try and get this thing running right. Thanks for the help guys. I'm still listening to ideas. Like the part of the car not wanting to get above 4k. Maybe this is in direct relation to the dwell and the timing out. I sure hope so. |
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 12:46 PM
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#15
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Aug 3 2007, 02:39 PM) Dr. Evil, Sounds about right to me! I have been chasing the exact same problem with Babydoll. Bought a dwell meter specifically to fix this problem. Symptoms were the same, no power, won't rev, dwell was way out (in the 80 range). Got the dwell set correctly and ballparked the timing (can't see the timing mark on the fan). IMO you're gonna be really lucky if you can hit it dead on 47. It's a matter of taking off the distributor cap, loosening the points, adjusting them ever so slightly, tightening, buttoning up the dizzy, starting the car, and checking the dwell setting with the engine running. Rinse and repeat. I hear that Babydoll once again has the same problem... I suspect that either the dwell is out again or an injector is not firing, and the car is 2 hours away from my house so it's a major deal for me to fix it. Sears has a nice digital dwell meter that also serves as a multimeter. I'm particularily sorry you are in the same boat. I think need to slow down and re tackle this with some better meters and maybe a new digital timing gun from Sears. Gives me a reason to go buy more tools (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| swl |
Aug 3 2007, 01:00 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,409 Joined: 7-August 05 From: Kingston,On,Canada Member No.: 4,550 Region Association: Canada |
Is the dwell meter set to v8? Mine has 2 scales one for 6 and one for 8. I assumed since it was reading silly high and the car was running great that the scale needs to be divided by two to get the right answer for a 4 cyl. I confess that this doesn't make sense to me though. Dwell is just a measure of on time to off time - shouldn't matter how many cylinders are there.
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 01:04 PM
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#17
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Steve,
I looked at the meter and it says it is set on 4. I'm wondering here is my meter going south battery wise. I haven't changed the battery in this thing in two years and I'm surprised that it still working. I do recall something from a long time ago. Not sure why it popped in my head, that dwell should not change at all with any timing change, while dwell effects timing, timing should not effect dwell at all. Is that correct or is my memory failing me? |
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| Bartlett 914 |
Aug 3 2007, 01:07 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,216 Joined: 30-August 05 From: South Elgin IL Member No.: 4,707 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(Steve Thacker @ Aug 3 2007, 11:04 AM) Steve, dwell should not change at all with any timing change, while dwell effects timing, timing should not effect dwell at all. Is that correct or is my memory failing me? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) If dwell is changing with rpm, it may be a worn distributer bearing. |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Aug 3 2007, 02:28 PM
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#19
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
SEVENTEEN REPLIES AND NOT ONE CORRECT ANSWER! WTF is wrong with you guys? DID YOU NOT READ THE QUESTION?
The CORRECT way to hook up the dwell meter is the positive lead to the point side of the coil (terminal "1" or (-)), and the ground lead to a good engine ground. This kinda crap goes into the archives, and some newbie spends a year of his life trying to get his car started, trying every wrong trail until he gets to my post, if he lives that long. When you get the dwell set, shut it off check to see that the rotor is pretty much centered on the line for cylinder #1 when the engine is at TDC #1. Fix that if it's wrong, then start the car, warm it up, and set the timing at the RED, BLACK, or unpainted full advance mark on the fan, 2800 RPM.. BOTH HOSES OFF. The mark is one fan blade BEFORE the first wide fan support. It MAY not be marked on both sides of the fan, and you mAY have to lay over the trunk lid and get your head right down over the access hole to see the mark. Report back. The rest of you hang your heads in shame. If you had any questions about how I got to be Cap'n Krusty, read your 17 answers to the original question. The Cap'n, goin' easy on you |
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| Steve Thacker |
Aug 3 2007, 02:39 PM
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#20
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UMMMPH Yea Baby Yea ! UMMMPH Group: Members Posts: 1,089 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Pickerington, Ohio Member No.: 113 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
OUCHIE (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
Thank you skipper for the detailed reply. I think I can do it correctly now. I'll get this squared away this evening and have a report on your desk by morning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) |
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