How much is my rust-bucket really worth?, Robbed at the MA DMV today Options

[flippa]

I went to get the title for my car today at the registry. I will admit that it has been years since I have been there to register and/or get a title for an older car.

The woman at the counter told me that Massachusetts no longer assess the sales tax on the sales price of the car as too many people were cheating the system. The sales tax would be based on the car's book value. She left to go & look up my car's value. I thought to myself, "it's 37 years old, how much could the assessed value really be?"

I was shocked when she returned & told me that the car had a value of $8,900, and the tax would be 5 percent of that value, or $445. WTF????? I told her that I was surprized, stating that it is a 37 year old restoration project.

I asked nicely if she was sure about the value. I explained that I had the bare bones 1970 4 cylinder car, not the 6 (no need to piss her off, she is going to have a part in deciding how much I will be paying).

After looking up the value again, she came back & asked if $5,400 was better. What could I say? I was "saving" $175. Walked out with my new title and several hundred dollars less in my checking account.

How do the Department of Motor Vehicles / Registrys determine the value of the cars? Is it the same value that an insurance company would be using? Who determines these values? I know the 914's are increasing in value, but $8,900????

What is my 914 really worth?

[Danny_Ocean]

Welcome to Taxachussets!

Are you sure there isn't an appeals procedure in your state? Not every car is worth its' book value.

Here in FLA, after your car is 20/25 yrs. old, you receive an "antique" plate and annual reg. is $25. Even for daily-drivers, the most I ever paid was $45 for reg. We do pay a sales tax, based on the sales price of the vehicle at the time of purchase (6%).

[John]

I hope she at least bought you dinner first or calls you tomorrow.

I don't believe that they can even look up a (Kelly Blue Book) value of much before 1987.

You should have asked to see the listing (or gotten a print out of it).

That's all I'm going to say.

[flippa]

Taxachusetts is right! They stick it to us real good up here on everything, even antique vehicles now.

I am going to check on the appeals process, but I guess that I ned to figure out how the DMV is determining the value.

The last antique that I registered/titled was back in 1995, a 1968 Buick Skylark convert. I think that it only cost $50 at that time. Had no clue that I would be shelling out over $300 this afternoon.

[flippa]

No dinner & don't expect the call tomorrow.

I didn't even get a kiss!

[Root_Werks]

WA is the same way with cars and "assessessed" values. It sucks and most of the time isn't worth the trouble to get the tax reduced a few hundred bucks. Still $uck$

[brer]

wow, i'm surprised that could even be legal.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[stateofidleness]

here in texas, show a receipt (in my case my paypal invoice lol) and you pay tax on the purchase price of the car...

[ejm]

According to the Registry webpage

The sales tax for a private sale is calculated at 5% of the purchase price or the National Automotive Dealer Association (NADA) trade-in value, whichever is higher.

I'm pretty sure there is no NADA trade in value for our cars. There is a NADA average retail close to the original value she quoted. The same page also states

If the previous title has a space for a sales price, the price must be filled in. If the previous title does not have a space for a sales price, a bill of sale showing the sales price must be submitted.

I've never had the value on a signed bill of sale questioned but then I live in Western Mass which is a whole different place from where you are.

[flesburg]

I have lived in IL, NJ, MN, GA, OH, VA, and MO.

VA was the worst, with an annual property tax of like 6% of blue book.
Of course I lived in the western mountains, and 60 or 70% of the people
had more money invested in cars than in houses. All of the "Good Old Boys"
had a PO box in FL, and had FL plates on their cars. Maybe you guys in MA
could register your cars in FL. (You will need a PO box, and a FL drivers license).

I am sure glad I never lived in MA.

You have a great Baseball team, but I question how your Senators keep getting
elected.

Do they charge you a tax if you move away?

New York City only charges tolls on the
tunnels as you leave (or they did when I lived in NJ).

[WyKev]

In Colorado, just show a reciept. In Wyoming, they stick it to you. They have a book(saw it) that has the LIST price of almost anything that goes on the road back to 1960.

Try the shock of registering a 89 Audi 200 Tq. That thing was 40k when new. I paid 1500. And no, I didn't get a kiss either. Gotta love the government. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I had that happen to me once here in MN. when I transfered my 914 about 15 years ago. I declared I paid 1500.00 for the car as I did. The girl took my money and gave me plates. About a month or so later I received a letter from the DMV stating there was a problem with my vin. and they couldn't send me a title until I called them. The DMV guy told me that based on the info they had my 914 should be worth 10,000.00 and I owed the tax on that value. I gave him two options. He could send me my title or an invoice for the amount of tax he felt I owed. But I told him that the Attorney General recently made a radio commercial warning citizens to be on the look out for people attempting to extort money from you. I insured the DVM guy that If I received a bill instead of my title I would have his name into the Attorney Generals office the next day in a formal letter of complaint.

I received the title.

Tha whole system is a huge government ripoff!

[Cevan]

I just titled/registered mine in Mass in August. They used the value in the NADA book using the low retail price. I argued that I paid alot less than the number they were using to no avail. They gave me an abatement form, but I figured my car was probably worth at least the amount they valued it at. At least we have no emissions test to deal with.

[type47]

VA was the worst, with an annual property tax of like 6% of blue book.

a recent governor (or was it HMFIC of the county?) ran on a platform that he would phase out the personal property tax on cars in VA (or was it the county). they are trying to phase the tax back in (revenue shortfalls due to "previous administration"). at any rate, i pay NO personal property tax on my 3 cars as they are all older than 20 yrs old, the tax cut off age. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rhcb914]

Dude that sux! Looks like they took the values right off the NADA collector values.

NADA Values

When I registered mine also a 1970 bare bones 4 it was valued at $2000 but that was back in 03.

I guess they have to pay for the big dig some how.


Glad to see another masshole here!!

[flippa]

Thanks for the NADA link. At least I know where they came up with a $5400 value for my car.

Still feel like I am getting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (BWT; the smilies is the DMV, I am the sheep).

Now if my car got croaked in an accident, does the insurance company go by these values as well? I am sure this discussion has come up before from a few of you guys having the cars stolen or totaled in accidents.

Back in 1988, I was rear-ended in my first 914, which was a clone of this car, a white 1970 1.7. The other guy's insurance company offered me @ $1,000 for my car. I flipped out & started ranting at them; totally unacceptable, the car is a classic that is undergoing a restoration, worth much more than that insulting offer, blah blah blah. Without hesitation, they offered me $1,800 and I could keep the car, which I gladly accepted.

I loved that car, had done a bunch of work on getting it going & fixing the body, but I bought the car for $300 out of a junk yard, so the insurance money definnitely took the sting off loosing the car. I sold the wrecked 1970 & bought a 1974 2.0 which I drove as a daily driver for the next 5 years.

[jasons]

Thats a total rip off. In AZ they use a pro-rated formula based on the original MSRP to calculate registration. Every year the taxable portion of the registration goes down until its $0. Sales tax is assessed at the dealers, not the MVD. Private party car deals == no sales tax. My old cars cost about $25 annually for registration, my newer cars (5 and 7 years old) cost a couple hundred. Title transfers are like $10.

[PeeGreen 914]

If you were to get in a wreck you could proove your car is worth much more than that buy submitting what other 914s have sold for. Insurance companies find the going rate. Unless you have Hagerty and just set the value of your car.

[mskala]

This is interesting stuff. I don't remember getting reamed on mine, but the last times I bought a car in mass were '92 and '99 when this type of thing was not in place.

Still, if you buy a junker or something obviously not a 'good condition' vehicle, there is probably a way around that.

What is even more screwed up is the excise tax system, where every year you'll get a bill for I believe $25/1000 of their 'valuation' of the car. They have my '6 valued at $750. Also it looks like new or newer cars go down in value over 5 years but then seem to stop (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[davep]

Total ripoff! That is more than the car originally sold for. AND, they collected the full tax back then most likely.