Are We Stifling Creativity? Options

[McMark]

This forum is a great place to share ideas and get some feedback. Over the years we have built up a broad base of 'common knowledge'. The problem with common knowledge is that it can stifle creativity. For example, we just had a thread about large bore four cylinder motors, and it immediately received the standard response (myself included). It was also suggested that the place to talk about new and experimental ideas for these motors is another site.

I'm just worried that people are afraid to post about their new ideas, for fear of being told why it won't work, why they should have done something else, etc. In fact I know of one person who sent out a really cool email about some 914 work he did, but didn't post it here for exactly the reason above.

What's the 914World like from your perspective?

[Brando]

I'd rather post my idea and find out from someone who has done if before why it will or will not work, rather than to do it, waste the cash, and be out my part(s) and money. I don't think we're stifling creativity - quite the opposite. Chances are most of us don't have the resources to try out one of our "new" ideas, but someone else does. Shared environment, you can see practical results even if you don't have the means.

[r_towle]

or me personally, this open exchange of ideas regarding motor configuration and technical talk ended here several years ago.

The standard response is boring and old.
Bench engineering, and trying new ideas is why I joined in the first place.

While its nice to know where a certain door knob goes, or how certain trim fits, its loads more fun to design and build a motor.
Now I dont have thousands of motors under my belt, nor do I have a dyno.
I have been building these motors type 1 and type 4 for just shy of 30 years now, and purely for fun, not a business.

With all the new ideas, pauter and others come up with, its alot more fun to try these ideas, adapted to our motors.

Yes, the open exchange of ideas is gone. So are the D-jet guru type discussions that have proven that the system will go beyond 2.0 liters.

Does anyone remember the guy running djet in a 2.4 liter motor, 150hp (proven dyno numbers) on the west coast?? DD found him.

We no longer talk like that. Its sad but true.
At least it seems that way. The other site seems to be stimulating that sort of discussion, but the religious answer keeps popping up.

While I really appreciate the knowledge and effort of vendors, its fun to try. If I want to lay down and go with the norm, the last thing I would do is buy a 914.
Rich

[PeeGreen 914]

The hard part about our little cars is that with them being as old as they are there really isn't much that has not been tried. I love to hear about what people may be willing to try, but if someone has done it before they should be cautioned as to what to watch out for. For those who just THINK they know it won't work I say piss off. Let the creative juices flow. Only those that know first hand something won't work should talk. I'm sure if Jake listed to everyone who said it can't be done he would have stopped years ago.

[boxstr]

I think you have to be thick skinned to post here to start with. new idea or any idea at all. People are quick to berate someone for anything that does' not meet with their standards. Lambo doors comes to mind. They are not my cup of tea, but the person did a great job of fabricating.
Why post the usually crap about ricer, etc. It serves no constructive purpose to belittle the work someone has done to the car.
If you can't say some nice , keep it to yourself.

[r_towle]

I think you have to be thick skinned to post here to start with. new idea or any idea at all. People are quick to berate someone for anything that does' not meet with their standards. Lambo doors comes to mind. They are not my cup of tea, but the person did a great job of fabricating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Why post the usually crap about ricer, etc. It serves no constructive purpose to belittle the work someone has done to the car.
If you can't say some nice , keep it to yourself.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) That is why I keep my mouth shut about slant noses. It may not be my cup of tea, but anyone CAN appreciate the work that goes into it. At least the people trying these things like our little carsenough to use it as a base to start from. Who knows what they may stumble on.

[r_towle]

Overall, when it comes to motors, I keep my results to myself because there are to many eyes watching....

Happy to share, but my regional competitors get antsy..

I think the 914 architecture is really cool and that is why it keeps going strong.
subaru and V8 along with huge six motors cannot be dropped in any other car so easily.

But, the creativity regarding type 4 motors is gone. It just is.

[Rand]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I love the balance between thinking outside the box and learning from what doesn't work.

There may be a balance in between, but I LOVE seeing each end of the spectrum be stretched more and more!!!! That's exactly what it takes to make it outside the common rut.

[carr914]

I guess my only beef is that nobody seems to use the search function (I myself find it frustrating - it doesn't really work well) and the same questions are asked over and again. It does seem that people flow in and out of the forum where once it was a ritual.
Also I think the split opened up some people to talk that didn't before. I'm not going to slope-nose, lambo door, V-8, V-6, Rotary, Subie, Audi any of my cars, but I enjoy the thought and effort that goes into these cars.
The other Beef is the lack of caring that we seemed to used to have. If there was a ailing member, sick child, member with legal woes, etc. we used to flock to the cause, but now we CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR Mrs K.

T.C.

[dw914er]

well, the creativity is sorta why i posted the drifting video

its a new style that is going on, and it is branching out to new ages, and new cars (like that 993)

a few years from now, aka when i graduate college, i will trey to build a drift oriented 914, just because drifting is hard to do for any car, and mid engine is probably the hardest

but maybe, someone else will be tempted in trying to configure a 914 for drifting

(who knows, it could open up a new world for 914 in motorsports (it hasnt been tried yet, so who knows))


and lambo doors, not my cup of tea, but i think that is pretty cool to do on a 914

i agree with how the 914, with its design, and age, makes it very unique, and so there are many possibilites, that with new technology, we can see being added to out little cars


support creativity!

[ws91420]

My response to the big bore four thread was based on his intial question. He did not say he had access to a machine shop, did not say he had built any type 4's before and wanted reliability. To me the reliabilty part alone says a Raby engine. From my understanding if you dont do things right on these engines especially on a big bore you wont get any longevity from it.

My example being a novice to the type IV I rebuilt my engine to stock specs and now I have a engine with probably a bad rod bearing w/ less than 2k miles on it.

[orthobiz]

I guess my only beef is that nobody seems to use the search function (I myself find it frustrating - it doesn't really work well) and the same questions are asked over and again. It does seem that people flow in and out of the forum where once it was a ritual.

The site is great and I may be off base here, but I think our knowledge base is not as well published as it could be. For instance, we could have more articles about options for increasing engine displacement with some common scenarios. This would avoid a question like "what can I do with my 1.8 motor." Or, we could even have separate FAQ pages that list some classic answers to common questions like "how easy is it to fix the hell hole."

It would eliminate some of the repeated questions AND a person who could do some preliminary research and then ask a more "intelligent" question.

Sometimes the search function is funky because people ask questions like "newbie with a question" or "help!" or some other generic unsearchable thing.

Paul

[Rand]

I guess my only beef is that nobody seems to use the search function (I myself find it frustrating - it doesn't really work well) and the same questions are asked over and again.

I agree with that. Use the search before you ask! HOWEVER: I also love the idea that this is a LIVE forum. So instead of some repository where people have to just go research the archives, I love the live interactive thing because it gives us a pulse on what people are doing!

So while I think people should use the search capabilities here, I also don't want to see the rest of us squelch the newbies. I actually enjoy seeing what people are dealing with in real time, and don't mind readdressing old issues again. It keeps the place alive, right? Otherwise we could just publish an end-all encyclopedia and close shop.

No rules! Bring it all!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[lotus_65]

well i don't get the results from the search function i hope for, so i've started making pdf's of ones that are of particular interest. that way, if someone asks instead of searching, i can actually add a link instead of saying "oh, someone did that here before", but not add any info on how o find it.

I think the classic threads need to be expanded. some people where building how-to style blogs, more of that would be good. this is an excellent community and a format that will exist for decades if not longer. it would be nice to have the definitive reference library.

[chris914]

I really appreciate anyone that takes the time to share the information that they have learned. Even if it is a few simple pictures or a complete HowTo write up. Over the years I have asked and answered fewer questions because of the same reasons given by the others above.

I would like to thank everyone that made their knowledge available and posted it here so it would be helpful for others to use. I have used a lot of it to help me on my car.

When I’m trying to find some information I start with the “Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum” then I use Google search on all of the forums. If I can’t find what I’m looking for then I post a question.

[swl]

Rand is right that the fun here is the (near) real time interactivity. Having someone pop up and say "I don't mind doing some experimenting on my own to prove you wrong" is really cool. As long as he/she is not scared off by the purveyors of conventional wisdom then we're all good to go. 'Informed decisions' and all that.

This is digressing from the original theme a bit but I find searching is often difficult here. There has been so much discussed over the years that it is hard to find the search terms to bring the list down to something reasonable. I also am finding lately that the +blah +bling +boing doesn't always work as expected.

I appreciate what the admins are doing with the Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum and the coordination of how to tech articles. I wonder though if a well organized wiki might help. Either that or a series of subforums where a good (not classic) thread might be archived in chapters like the haynes manual. I hate fragmented discussion boards - discussion should be in one place. But once it is done it would be great to have a filing system for some of them.

[drive-ability]

Once my car is done, the funs over and I'll sell it.

[KaptKaos]

As our little cars go up in value, our pinkies seem to point up more as well.

It's not just the motors, or the ricer tricks or the drifting. It's the onset of snobbery.

While I may not like all aspects of what people do to their cars; those are their cars and they can do with them as they please. Sometimes, from those way out there cars come rare moments of inspiration that really change the way we all do things.

Don't stifle or look down on another's car passion. It's the same as yours but with a little different perspective. We're all in this together. Soon it will be the motorheads versus the rest of the world as our hobby will come under increasing scrutiny from the greenies. We will need each other. We can not afford to think that there is one true faith when it comes to the car hobby.

[ConeDodger]

This is a somewhat natural order of things. Any ideas that stray too far from the middle of the road, the mainstream so to speak will be ridiculed. I found myself doing the same thing Mark is refering to in the post he is refering to. My second post pointed out that I was limiting creativity by telling him he couldn't do what he wanted.
We do a lot of it. A recent post about adding power steering got a rather cute (I admit I laughed) response "Gold's Gym". I was tempted to respond myself but figured I had nothing to add to the OP's discussion and I resisted the temptation to just tell him how foolish it seemed.
I am not sure, as humans anyway, that we can avoid the temptation to regulate the herd to the midstream of thought. But it can't hurt to try.
I for one will try not to tell people they can't. In fact, as one person put it, it's their car they can paint it any color they want.
Trying not to stifle creativity...