1.8 not running right, need help., after Petronix install, uninstall. Update - running! Options

[Cevan]

I had gotten a Petronix electronic ignition module (1847V). Prior to installing it, the car had been running great with the points (I know, should have left well enough alone). I installed it per the instructions and cranked the motor over but nothing. I checked all my connections and cranked it over again and nothing. So I removed it and put the points back on.

When I go to start it, it seems that only 2 of the cylinders are firing. It was definitely idling low. My CHT gauge never really moved (it's on #3) so I suspect that 3 and possibly 4 are not firing. I drove it about 1/4 mile and no power.

Could I have flooded 3 and 4 when I had the Petronix unit on? I'm going to let the car sit overnight and try it again in the morning. Could I have damaged something with the Petronix unit?

[alpha434]

Make sure the tach signal wire is hooked up to the dizzy properly.

[Cevan]

Which wire is that?

[bfrymire]

I had gotten a Petronix electronic ignition module (1847V). Prior to installing it, the car had been running great with the points (I know, should have left well enough alone). I installed it per the instructions and cranked the motor over but nothing. I checked all my connections and cranked it over again and nothing. So I removed it and put the points back on.

When I go to start it, it seems that only 2 of the cylinders are firing. It was definitely idling low. My CHT gauge never really moved (it's on #3) so I suspect that 3 and possibly 4 are not firing. I drove it about 1/4 mile and no power.

Could I have flooded 3 and 4 when I had the Petronix unit on? I'm going to let the car sit overnight and try it again in the morning. Could I have damaged something with the Petronix unit?

Also make sure you are usign the right coil. The pertronix needs the 3 ohm coil. Otherwise, too much current will flow through the pertronix and fry it. Which coil are you using? Stock? I don't remember off-hand what the resistance of the stock coil is.

And how did you hook it up. (You can also disconnect the tach, and make sure that is not causing the problem as someone else mentioned.)

-- brett

[Cevan]

I'm shelving the Pertronix for now. I'm trying to figure out why it won't run with the original points back on. My Haynes manual has a procedure for testing the coil which I'll try after work tonight. If the coil is damaged, would it still run as I described?

[pete914]

When I installed my pertronix I hooked up my wires to the coil backwards. I actually matched the connection that the points system was using...BUT IT WAS BACKWARDS!!! Anyway it just turned over and over.
I was about to ditch the system until I got out a mirror and saw the +/- sign under the coil. Switched the wires and it fired right up. No problems now.

I think you put the the dizzy on in too retarded a position. did you recheck your timing? lack of power and missing cylinders would make sense.

I doubt you damaged anything permanently. The only thing that would get damaged in what you did was the unit itself.

I do think pertronix units are more durable than people say. I had mine hooked up backward and was cranking it for awhile and it still didn't burn up...

[Cevan]

I guess my 1st post wasn't that clear. I took the Pertronix unit off the car and put the original points back on. The problem I'm having is getting the car running with the points. It was running great with the points before I tried the Pertronix, but now with the points back on, it's no good. I can barely get it to roll away in 1st gear.

Could one or more of the plugs have been fouled?

Could it be the points gap? I set the gap per the Haynes manual. I would assume that the gap is good as long as some of the cylinders are firing.

[SLITS]

Nowhere in this thread have you mentioned timing. Did you retime the engine with the Petronix or when you put the points back in?

[Cevan]

I did nothing to the timing. I only removed the points, installed the Pertronix module, cranked the engine over a couple times, and then removed the module and reinstalled the points. That's it. I'm going to re-check the points gap, test the coil, and check all my vacuum line connections.

[Cevan]

I re-checked all the vacuum lines and electrical connections and everything looks good. The coil measured 4.3 ohms between pin 1 and 15 on the coil and it measured 8.21 k ohms between the tower and pin 1.

I pulled the plugs. #1 and #2 look fine. #3 and #4 looked fouled, covered in fuel and the cylinders smelled of unburnt fuel. I cleaned up the plugs and checked for spark on #3 and #4 and they are.

So given that the injectors appear to be providing fuel and the plugs are getting juice, can I conclude that #3 and #4 flooded when trying the Petronix unit and never recovered? I plan to leave the plugs out tonight to allow the gas to evaporate and to put them back in tomorrow night.

[SLITS]

Major mystery ...

I will start by saying that changing components will change the timing. It is feasible that the Petronix threw the timing off far enough that the engine wouldn't start. There is nothing to guarantee that when you slipped the magnet over the point cam that the magnets lined up with the sensor in the same manner that the points were aligned for firing (my conjecture).

If this were true, the engine started and ran, alebit badly, you could have filled the cylinders with enough fuel to drown out the fire. I would think if all things were correct they should have cleared themselves.

Since the L-Jet takes the signal from the points/coil circuit for firing of the injectors I also wonder if the P unit did something to the brain if the P unit was defective out of the box

All this says is that I really have no answer, but I would check the timing of the engine for sure.

[Thack]

I think you have somehow messed up the wiring to the coil or perhaps the ignition wires are not seated fully. Take off the number 3 or 4 wire at the plug and put an extra plug on the end and see if it fires. Ground the plug to the engine but try to attach it. If you hold the plug it will shock you. If you get a full blue spark then you have a fuel or trigger points issue. No spark, then you can work back from there.

[Cevan]

I think you have somehow messed up the wiring to the coil or perhaps the ignition wires are not seated fully. Take off the number 3 or 4 wire at the plug and put an extra plug on the end and see if it fires. Ground the plug to the engine but try to attach it. If you hold the plug it will shock you. If you get a full blue spark then you have a fuel or trigger points issue. No spark, then you can work back from there.

When I took the #3 and #4 plugs out, I cleaned them with compressed air and then did as you suggested. Both #3 and #4 got spark.

I didn't do anything to the coil wiring expect disconnect the green points wire when I installed the Pertronix. When I put the points back on, I plugged the green wire back in.

Both #3 and #4 cylinders smalled of gas so I'm assuming the injectors are providing fuel.

How do I check the trigger points? I will buy a timing light and dwell meter to check these as well. I'll also use my noid light to double check the injectors.

[Thack]

I forgot how the trigger points are wired to the distributor. Maybe someone will chime in. I know that they will provide the pulse for triggering the injectors in pairs. I don't think it's 3 and 4 together. More like 1 and 3 then 2 and 4. I thought maybe you knocked the connection loose by accident.
Now I think you may just have bad plugs. Maybe something was loose or faulty with the Pertronix and it didn't create spark, thusly it fouled your plugs.

[SLITS]

No trigger points on an L-Jet ... only on D-Jet

The other thing I forgot to mention is you have a resistor pack that provides ground for the injectors. If a wire is broke the injector won't fire.

[ClayPerrine]

The L-Jet system is fairly simple and reliable. If you didn't monkey with the injection, you are barking up the wrong tree.


And Slits, if the resistor pack has a broken wire, the injector will not trigger. His problem is flooding, so the injector has to be triggering.



Did you remove the plug wires from the cap when you had it off to change the points?


If so, you may have crossed some wires. Recheck the firing order. Also, check to make sure the white wire from the injection is hooked to the same side of the coil as the green wire from the points.

[pete914]

I agree, the only thing you touched was the dizzy. how you got the pertronix system in there without removing it is amazing. I tried in vain, but gave in and pulled the thing. get a timing light off amazon. they are like $25 and work great. Maybe your engine is flooded, but I don't see any reason why anything in the FI would be affected aside from the timing issue, but if the dizzy never rotated, then it should still be spot on.
are you sure the spark plugs are firing? if they're not, it's a battery/coil/dizzy issue. recheck your wiring. Like i said, my pertronix system is backwards to my points setup for some reason I've yet to figure out.

[Cevan]

Got it running!! It appears that #3 and #4 got flooded b/c now it runs.

I bought a dwell meter and timing light. I set the initial gap at .016 per the Haynes manual and my dwell was about 30 degrees, so I started to reduce the gap. I'm down to about .011 or .010 and it's up to 40 degrees. It seems like I'll have to get the gap down to almost nothing in order to see a dwell reading of 44-50 degrees. Does this sound right?

[swl]

Check your dwell meter - is it set to 4 cylinder?

BTW when I installed my pertronix it set the timing way off. Perhaps that was the original no start?

[Cevan]

I am a dumbass. I was looking at the 6 cylinder setting. Now my dwell is within spec. Now I have to bend an old 13 mm wrench to try and get at the bolt holding down the dizzy so I can check/adjust the timing. The damn vacuum advance prevents me from using one of my closed end flex wrench.

Thanks again for everyones help.