Pulse plugs..., who's heard of and/or using them? Options

[dbgriffith75]

So I was at the auto parts store today picking up some new tools, and as I was standing at the counter I noticed a layout advertisement for a newly designed spark plug called a "pulse plug." Basically its the same concept as a spark plug, only with an added internal capacitor to create a spark 10 times more powerful than your average plug. It's supposed to burn feul more efficiently, resulting in increased mileage, HP and torque.

I was just curious if anybody's heard of and/or using them, and if it actually holds up to the claims? I'm not specifically talking about a 914 either, because I wouldn't mind using them in my DD if it's really true.

Here's the website I found on them: http://www.pulstarplug.com

Thoughts?

[URY914]

BS.

[Zundfolge]

Snake Oil.

If pulse plugs performed half as well as the manufacturers claim they would be OEM on every new car on the market.

[ericread]

I'm curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I see that this plug has been branded as "snake oil" and the such. But how about the products which provide for a multiple spark (Crane Ignition). Or how about the Bosche "Blue" coil, which is supposed to provide a "fatter" spark (whatever that is)? Or even the expensive spark plug wires that contain an in-line capacitor (Nology)?

If your engine is really tuned correctly, is any of this stuff really necessary? It seems to me that a properly tuned engine wouldn't need any of these "improvements", but does that make all of these "snake oil"?

Just a thought... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[r_towle]

I figured wth...might try them...

$25.00 per plug......hahahahahahahahaha

Not gonna happen.

Rich

[Brando]

I'm waiting to hear back from them...

[Brando]

Interesting test results:
http://www.pulstarplug.com/tresults/05prius.html

[dbgriffith75]

I figured wth...might try them...

$25.00 per plug......hahahahahahahahaha

Not gonna happen.

Rich

Yeah, they're a bit pricey, but not the most expensive I've heard of. A guy I used to work with used to own a dodge dually deisel (can't remember the specific engine model) and he claimed glow plugs for that beast cost him $58/plug. And given that it's a new product, you should expect a higher cost. Eventually it will go down over time. Just like the PS3, which I think is currently at $500 for a new system. Give it a few years and that price will drop dramatically. Of course by then it won't be the new fad anymore, but you get my point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If your engine is really tuned correctly, is any of this stuff really necessary? It seems to me that a properly tuned engine wouldn't need any of these "improvements", but does that make all of these "snake oil"?

That's a good point, but the purpose for these plugs is the same as what auto manufacturers are doing with sensors and computers and hybrids and the like on new model cars- to make the car more efficient. Theoretically a bigger spark would provide more efficient ignition of the feul, which would result in better economy, HP and torque. But as with many things auto related, there's a huge difference between theory and application.

I can see how these would make a difference in about any vehicle, but the actual difference would vary depending on what you put them in. Say they're installed in a little 4 banger coupe- you'd probably see a much greater improvement as opposed to installing them in a V8 heavy half pick up just because of the weight of each vehicle.

Maybe next time I'm in the parts store I'll see if they can arrange a demonstration to get an actual look at the spark difference.

[ericread]

I figured wth...might try them...

$25.00 per plug......hahahahahahahahaha

Not gonna happen.

Rich

Yeah, they're a bit pricey, but not the most expensive I've heard of. A guy I used to work with used to own a dodge dually deisel (can't remember the specific engine model) and he claimed glow plugs for that beast cost him $58/plug. And given that it's a new product, you should expect a higher cost. Eventually it will go down over time. Just like the PS3, which I think is currently at $500 for a new system. Give it a few years and that price will drop dramatically. Of course by then it won't be the new fad anymore, but you get my point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If your engine is really tuned correctly, is any of this stuff really necessary? It seems to me that a properly tuned engine wouldn't need any of these "improvements", but does that make all of these "snake oil"?

That's a good point, but the purpose for these plugs is the same as what auto manufacturers are doing with sensors and computers and hybrids and the like on new model cars- to make the car more efficient. Theoretically a bigger spark would provide more efficient ignition of the feul, which would result in better economy, HP and torque. But as with many things auto related, there's a huge difference between theory and application.

I can see how these would make a difference in about any vehicle, but the actual difference would vary depending on what you put them in. Say they're installed in a little 4 banger coupe- you'd probably see a much greater improvement as opposed to installing them in a V8 heavy half pick up just because of the weight of each vehicle.

Maybe next time I'm in the parts store I'll see if they can arrange a demonstration to get an actual look at the spark difference.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) My point is that just beause something is new or "faddish", it's not necessarily bad. However, I've ask the Crane multiple-spark question several times under different threads, and never really gotten an answer.

BTW: It looks like these plugs are in direct competition with the NOLOGY wires.

So, which of these are "snake oil" and which really make a difference?????

[Rand]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

Also, can someone explain to me how multiple spark systems help? Atomized gas + oxygen is so explosive that it instantly touches off with a spark. How does an additional spark help? Drop a match in a bucket of gas... Dropping a second one isn't going to make it burn faster. I know - that's a bad analogy that doesn't really apply - But I would like to understand how multispark really helps/works. And twin plug for that matter (not doubting it). I just would have thought that one spark lights it - once it's lit the explosion starts - how does another spark help?

Regarding their Toyota Prius results... I thought the gas motor only charged the batteries in those things, and all the power to the wheels comes from the electric. Is that incorrect? (Hey, maybe Otmar could pick up some power with these things in his electric 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[ConeDodger]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

Also, can someone explain to me how multiple spark systems help? Atomized gas + oxygen is so explosive that it instantly touches off with a spark. How does an additional spark help? Drop a match in a bucket of gas... Dropping a second one isn't going to make it burn faster. I know - that's a bad analogy that doesn't really apply - But I would like to understand how multispark really helps/works. And twin plug for that matter.

Regarding their Toyota Prius results... I thought the gas motor only charged the batteries in those things, and all the power to the wheels comes from the electric. Is that incorrect? (Hey, maybe Otmar could pick up some power with these things in his electric 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

It appears the plug probably contains a capacitor that stores electricity and releases it all at once. There is some science behind that. Not sure if it actually works though.

There is always some fuel unburned and the multispark systems attempt to burn that up. Probably makes for a better idle and cleaner running engine.

The gas motor on the Prius is intended to give you power when your battery power is inadequate. So it turns on at acceleration and long highway trips etc.

Beware of anyone's research when the result can benefit them. Pulstar is testing their own product. If it works they sell more product. So it behooves them to make it appear to work. BIAS!!! These things should be tested double blind in an independent lab that gains nothing but their fee no matter what the result. It is good science to prove something doesn't work or does work. This is actually a very good thesis project for a grad student in engineering.

[ericread]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

The idea is to take the period (time length) of the electrical pulse from the dist and store it in the capacitor. Once the capacitor has stored the charge to it's rated limit, it quickly discharges. This makes a hotter, but shorter duration spark.

Anyway, that's the theory... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[biosurfer1]

Regarding their Toyota Prius results... I thought the gas motor only charged the batteries in those things, and all the power to the wheels comes from the electric. Is that incorrect? (Hey, maybe Otmar could pick up some power with these things in his electric 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

I dont think that is correct, the gas engine runs when the batteries cannot keep up and has the double duty of charging them...probably why they call it "hybrid assist"

[messix]

oh jake!

i'll try on the msd and crane, these units only help at idle and low rpm. the combustion chamber design of heads of the past weren't the best as far as promoting a good even fuel air ratio through the comustion chamber, the msd would keep a spark going for a longer duration to help catch the fuel air mix at the point where the compression made the mix more ideal [timing on spark is bdtc right? so giving a longer spark event via multiple spark discharge would effectivly move spark event closer to tdc] .

does that help?

[Brando]

So, am i the only one that read through the website?

Not for or against this product, but on a few of their pages they have links to articles from magazines that claim to have done independent tests of these plugs. They also have a dyno run using their testing method (emphasis: their). Not sure how they pan out but I'd be willing to try em out in my bike if they make them small enough.

Waiting for a response back, still.

[dbgriffith75]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

That's what a capacitor does. To put it a little more plainly, if you've got something you need power to, say an electric motor, but the power source you have is inadequate, adding a capacitor to the circuit would store the power until its sufficient to run the motor. That's not a very good example but that's the basic idea.

Pulstar is claiming the same thing- by delivering more power to the electrodes in the plug, you are essentially getting a bigger spark and theoretically, a more efficient burn.

Go to this website if you're still unclear on the details: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm

[ConeDodger]

So, am i the only one that read through the website?

Not for or against this product, but on a few of their pages they have links to articles from magazines that claim to have done independent tests of these plugs. They also have a dyno run using their testing method (emphasis: their). Not sure how they pan out but I'd be willing to try em out in my bike if they make them small enough.

Waiting for a response back, still.

Sorry... I should have been clearer apparently. Magazines are not independent. Only journals that do not accept advertising are independent. For instance a magazine does an article on cleaning and blueprinting fuel injectors and outlines the power improvement. In the magazine an advertisement appears for a company that cleans and blueprints fuel injectors. So, an intelligent person has to wonder did the fact that the popular magazine obtains income from the company effect the stated result of their "independent" tests? The fact that you can question a motivation for a result obtained means that the testing is tainted. So, from a scientific perspective you must at the least cast a jaundiced eye on the result. I'm not saying that what a magazine finds is worthless but it doesn't rise to the level of science which was my point and the point of others who made comments such as "snake oil".
Yes, I read it. I just understood it from a different perspective. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[6freak]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

Also, can someone explain to me how multiple spark systems help? Atomized gas + oxygen is so explosive that it instantly touches off with a spark. How does an additional spark help? Drop a match in a bucket of gas... Dropping a second one isn't going to make it burn faster. I know - that's a bad analogy that doesn't really apply - But I would like to understand how multispark really helps/works. And twin plug for that matter.

Regarding their Toyota Prius results... I thought the gas motor only charged the batteries in those things, and all the power to the wheels comes from the electric. Is that incorrect? (Hey, maybe Otmar could pick up some power with these things in his electric 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

It appears the plug probably contains a capacitor that stores electricity and releases it all at once. There is some science behind that. Not sure if it actually works though.

There is always some fuel unburned and the multispark systems attempt to burn that up. Probably makes for a better idle and cleaner running engine.

The gas motor on the Prius is intended to give you power when your battery power is inadequate. So it turns on at acceleration and long highway trips etc.

Beware of anyone's research when the result can benefit them. Pulstar is testing their own product. If it works they sell more product. So it behooves them to make it appear to work. BIAS!!! These things should be tested double blind in an independent lab that gains nothing but their fee no matter what the result. It is good science to prove something doesn't work or does work. This is actually a very good thesis project for a grad student in engineering.

Mythbusters...someone callem

[r_towle]

I don't get it. They say these plugs "store incoming electrical energy from the ignition system." Where is it getting extra power to "store up" and then release? A plug only gets power when the dizzy sends it, and then it gets all there is to get. I don't see how these things could store and release more power if no more is being sent to them.

That's what a capacitor does. To put it a little more plainly, if you've got something you need power to, say an electric motor, but the power source you have is inadequate, adding a capacitor to the circuit would store the power until its sufficient to run the motor. That's not a very good example but that's the basic idea.

Pulstar is claiming the same thing- by delivering more power to the electrodes in the plug, you are essentially getting a bigger spark and theoretically, a more efficient burn.

Go to this website if you're still unclear on the details: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm

This is what the coil is already doing.
Currently, at higher rpms, the stock coil, and even the blue coil, dont have enough time to recharge the coil/capacitor as it is currently engineered.
Where is the extra, spare electricity coming from to charge the capacitor in the plug???

Not saying they dont work, but I would question if they would help or hurt the type of ignition system (coil/condensor) that we typically run now.
With an MSD type system or other multi spark system, it would work, those have more stored energy already.

Rich

[messix]

google "ohm's law"

you can't get more out than you put in. [total electrical engergy]