SOT: Boxster checklist, couple questions Options

[stateofidleness]

Hey guys,
gettin' serious about replacing my high mileage '98 chevy blazer and
would like to move to a boxster.
ive done some (read not much) research on them and have seen that
2.5L models have RMS issues. seems to be only main issue with them so far

I am talking to someone who has a 55,000 mile '98 model which is listed as an "S". what im wondering is, did they even have an S model in '98 and if the seller truly doesnt know, is there something on the car that would identify 100% as an S model? (badging, engine, etc)

Other things I should look out for when checking it out/test driving it?

It was also listed as a 5speed.. Wouldnt all S models be 6 speed?

Thanks so much!

oh yea.. what would be a decent price for a '98 S (if it actually is) in very good condition and all service records with no issues?

[Root_Werks]

97 2.5's didn't share the same troubles as 98-99 2.5's.

I don't know about the "S" models, but I thought they were all 3.2's and didn't have any issues, even the early ones? Hopefully someone with more brains than I will chime in.

[Root_Werks]

Oh, and 6spd didn't come out on anything 986 related until 00 model year.

[stateofidleness]

so it COULD possibly be an S model

[roadster fan]

No S until 2000, tho there were 2.7 liter cars before that. No six speed until 00. IMO, get an early S for all the upgrades (brakes, suspension, engine). I have seen low mileage early S's going for under $20K. That is alot of car for that price.

That being my father in law had a 99 2.5 that I drove right before he sold it that was a blast on the twisties. Boxsters are a dime a dozen expecially the non S models and prices reflect that. If you shop around you can find them in the $12K range.

Jim

[stateofidleness]

he's asking 15,500 for it (still unconfirmed if an S or what engine size.. awaiting an email)

I have not been able to find an '00 S for under 20!!! help me out!

[brant]

what does "RMS" stand for and what issues do they have
I thought the 97's had block issues and all models were good after 98

apparently I thought wrong.
would like to know for future reference

thanks
brant

[Ferg]

what does "RMS" stand for and what issues do they have
I thought the 97's had block issues and all models were good after 98

apparently I thought wrong.
would like to know for future reference

thanks
brant

Rear Main Seal Pretty much par like all 996's ect, Not a cheap job, so you should look for record of repair.

It's my understanding that late 97's through 99's could have the porous engine case issue. It usually showed up before 30-40k though so if it's a higher mileage car, It could be good, or it may have had the engine replaced which you should research and find out if it's had a motor put in. That would be a bonus.

Many Pre 00 cars are changing hands for under 15k... It's a buyers market.

This is one car, I would really do my homework one, pull service records of any prospects, carfax, ect ect. And a real PPI is a must. It's not really a car you can have a buddy go "look at" as without removing all the undertrays ect, you can't see squat.


Ferg

[Matt Meyer]

RMS= rear main seal

The porous block issue is often listed under "RMS" as well as a couple of other problems, apparently all related to oil leaks. How would a 914 owner know that was not normal? LOL.

I think you should buy (still?) current issue of Excellence Magazine. The Boxter is in the buyers guide. It covers this issue as well as what years/models are effected.

[stateofidleness]

was wondering that.. would a replacement engine be a red flag or a bonus?

good that it's a new engine, but could mean other trouble?

should i pass on this one and set my sights on maybe a '00 or later?

[Ferg]

was wondering that.. would a replacement engine be a red flag or a bonus?

good that it's a new engine, but could mean other trouble?

should i pass on this one and set my sights on maybe a '00 or later?

Like anything, buy the best one you can find, and afford, they made a ton of them...

Here is a good read on the early case issues and the two types of failures, taken from the pca Q&A

With the introduction of the Boxster, Porsche teamed up with Kolbenschmidt to manufacture their new water-cooled engine. These engines were to utilize the newly introduced Lokasil liners. The liners themselves offer a higher friction-free service area. This is most useful in regard to not only the longevity of the cylinder but the ever-growing higher mileage service interval. The cases experienced several issues starting with their porosity. In 1997 many of these newly released engines seeped oil through the cases themselves. This seepage was due to a problem in the manufacturing process. When the cases are made in a high-pressure die-casting, the air in the die has to escape. Should the alloy enter too fast and not let all the air out, trapped air pockets are the result. These pockets produce a porous area. This area would then allow seepage of the oil. The reason it was generally oil and not coolant leakage was due to the casting process. The air was trapped in the bottom to center rear of the castings, which housed the oil.

Another well-known problem was the liner failures in late 1998 to early 1999. This would translate into only the 1999 model year do to production dates.

These failures were also due to a manufacturing process. The cylinder liners are created from an alloy made abrasion resistant by adding silicon. Prior to casting the crankcase, the cylinder liners are fixed in position by an operator, then surrounded by a conventional aluminum alloy casting. This is done by inserting the pre-formed cylinder liners (manufactured by Plochingen-based Ceram Tec AG in a special freeze casting process) into the die. The dies are then closed and a high-pressure die casting (HPDC) and squeeze casting (SC) are utilized to achieve this. Three casting machines with a closing force of 1800 tons are used for this purpose. The advantage of the Lokasil process is that the silicon is applied only where it is needed. Lokasil base material costs less than Alusil and is easier to process. These liners or pre-forms are of high silicon content (20-27 percent) and offer a high reduction of friction. Kolbenschmidt holds the patent to Lokasil and is also known for their Alusil and Galnikal piston liners. Lokasil is a "sacrificial" bore liner comprised of silicon fibers in a binding that, when inserted into the block mold, burns out the fibers, leaving the high-content silicon surface directly in the bores. This actually allows the “sacrificial” liner to become one with the block thus eliminating a separate part in the block.

In 1998 Kolbenschmidt’s casting machine was damaged. The time required to repair the machine could have slowed Boxster production down severely unless a fix was found. The solution was to reline some not-quite-perfect blocks that were on hand. Most of these blocks had a casting defect or a porosity problem in at least one cylinder. The fix was simple and absolutely acceptable to standards when done correctly. Kolbenschmidt began the process of the repairs until the casting machine was fixed. This process started by boring out the failed cylinder to allow for the insertion of the liner. There is also a groove cut around the top of the cylinder to keep the sleeve from dropping. This groove is approximately 2.0mm larger than the size of the cylinder’s width and goes down approximately 4.5mm. The next step was the insertion of these liners. It was decided to press the liners in the blocks. This is where the error occurred. Some of these liners were pressed in at a higher rate than the top retaining ring could handle. This would then fracture the ring at the top of the liner. When this ring failed under operating conditions, it was catastrophic. The ring itself would fall apart inside the combustion chamber. At this time the piston would force this debris up into the cylinder head. The piston rings would grab the liner and pull it down from the momentum of the crankshaft. Some of these engines were replaced from coolant loss before they totally self destructed in this fashion. This was due to the ring starting to come apart but not fully. This would compromise the sealing of the head gasket and cause the coolant to either be burnt or expelled from the combustion pressure.

Porsche has not divulged exactly how many engines this actually occurred in other than a broad range of 2.5 engines in late 1998-early 1999. Nor have they released any engine numbers that have had sleeves installed. Generally speaking, the problem occurred within the first several thousand miles. They have been very good in correcting this for their customers in and out of warranty.

[Root_Werks]

Yup, what most above said. I think the rule of thumb I have heard is if it has under 20k original miles, walk away and if it has over 50k miles, probably won't ever have any of the issues or if the engine was replaced with a factory new engine under warranty you'd also be cool.

Something like that.

[stateofidleness]

sounds safe.
from what ya'll are saying though, seems like i should be able to find a 2000 or later model for roughly the same price?

still confused though, does a '98 "S" model exist?

[TROJANMAN]

There was a great article on how to buy a used boxster in one of last year's Road and Track issues. I don't remember the volume number, but perhaps you can google it.

[Ferg]

sounds safe.
from what ya'll are saying though, seems like i should be able to find a 2000 or later model for roughly the same price?

still confused though, does a '98 "S" model exist?

No real S in 98, but many people use the S term for the sport option package which had the big turbo style wheels, LSD, ect...

Go to LA's or San Fran's craigslist and type in Boxster, give you good idea of the price range. You should have no problem finding a nice 00 "S" for under 20k.

Ferg

[Jake Raby]

In our Boxster development we have seen numerous issues with all the 2.5 and 2.7 engines, and have worked to eliminate them...

The absolute best engine is the 3.2, they never seem to fail.

For some examples, see my 986 site
www.flat6innovations.com

A 2.9 liter engine based from a 2.5 or 2.7 case is now a reality and the IMS, RMS and D chunk failures have been remedied with some aftermarket innovation...

[stateofidleness]

dumb question, is a 986 the same a boxster?

thanks for the clarification on the "S" usage. it seems to be accurate as the car in question has the items you mentioned, but is a 5 speed and a '98.

is it possible to find a 3.2 for under $20k with no issues?

[Jake Raby]

Boxster= Typ 986

The 3.2 is the best engine, its basically a smaller bored 3.4 996 engine.. the smaller bore= strength.

But LN Engineering has eliminated the D chunk issues,so find a 2.5 car with a blown engine for dirt cheap and then install our 2.9 :-)

[roadster fan]

I have not been able to find an '00 S for under 20!!! help me out!

You live in the state of used Boxster S heaven. This company, and I think Victory Motorcars (also in Houston) always have nice low mileage cars.

Link

Hope this helps,

Jim

[roadster fan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif) ummmmm Jake uhhhhhhhhhh...........

are these gonna be available for my 3.2 Boxster motor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)



Jim

Sorry for the hijack