Balanced suspension upgrade, Selecting right parts for street use Options

[william harris]

My 74 2.0 is undergoing a long restoration process. The restoration will include installing Porsche OEM front and rear sway bars (my preference to use original equipment - like sticking with the D-Jet). All of my suspension parts are basically shot. I intend to upgrade the front and rear suspension. My thoughts are Bilsteins all around and 100 lb springs in the rear. This car will be used almost exclusively for regular street driving. I don't mind a "sport" suspension, but the roads here in Taxachusetts are very bad, so a track like ride would be impossible. Am I on the right course? My goal is to balance all the suspension components so they work well together and give a predictable handling experience. Also, are the Turbo tie rods the way to go?

[rhodyguy]

brads feeling on this is koni's and 100#'s for a street car. this is the path i have taken. i did the tierods and the steering feel/improvement was substantial. consider doing the balljoints too, if their history is unknown. you will need an alignment so consider everything front end related as not to waste your money.

kevin

[r_towle]

Step up to the koni adjustable shocks, more usefull on the street.
Bilsteins are a bit harse on the street.
Konis are original and better on your back.

100 lbs springs is what they sell as replacement original nowadays, so they are ok.

I have a brand new set of 100 lbs springs and three konis if you want...you will have to buy one new koni ...
Get an adjustable spring perch for the rear as the stock ride height is to high and you can tune it to your liking in the rear, front is already adjustable.

Rich

[rhodyguy]

the red rears are nla. i spoke to a tech rep at koni. they will no longer be produced unless there is enough demand for a production run. don't count on it.

kevin

[seanery]

whitey has koni yellows and 125# rears on coilovers. Stock front t-bars. Factory sways go in when it gets warm.

[SP9146]

I was also contemplating going with the 100# rear springs plus Koni yellows. I have a '70 914-6 and would be using it mianly for street driving but occassionally autocross. Based on some of the other posts now I'm thinking that 140# rear springs might be better. My car has a 19mm front sway bar, no rear bar.

For guys who have experienced 100# rear springs and 140# rear springs on the same car everything else the same, how much stiffer is the ride on the street and how much better is the handling esp. for autocross?

Pete
'70 914-6

[maf914]

Several years ago I went from sagging stock springs to 100# Weltmeister springs and leaking old Koni's to new Koni reds. The rear jumped in height 1 to 1-1/2". (Yes everything is seated properly). The ride is very smooth. It was firmer, but this could be the new shocks as I can't feel a significant difference due to the springs.

I would think that you might prefer the 140# rate for your six, since it probably has a little more weight. Also the stiffer rate and lower ride height will probably help at the AX.

Mike

[Brett W]

Check out the set up that Grassroots used on their project. I think It was equiped with 100s on the rear and stock t-bars up front with stock sway bars. But the odd thing is they ran the Shine roller bearings and couldn't say enough good thinks about them. THey wanted a softer very streetable car that they could drive on long trips. The article states that they are very happy with the result.

[Neal]

Brett W, could you post a picture of your car, that looks exactly like I wanted mine to look if it was blue. On the suspension I have Bilsteins all around and an a factory 19m sway bar 100 # Weltmeister springs. I was pointed towards the Bilsteins by Wayne of Pelican (way back in the day) and I have since found out that they are harsher than the Koni's. If I was to do it over I would get Koni's and 140# springs.

[Brad Roberts]

The Bilstein valving is pretty aggressive for the street, which is why I push people towards the adjustable Koni. This gives them options: run around for a few days on soft then change them to stiff... then find a place in between that suits your driving style/roads. The Bilsteins are great, but they are behind the curve when it comes to adjustable shocks. We even use adjustable shocks on the trucks we use for pulling the enclosed trailers. Set them full soft when the trailer is on the truck (front wheels will bounce around a lot more if the shocks are on full stiff) It makes for a safer pulling vehicle.

Same goes for a street car. Agressive shock with stiff rebound will give "aggressive ride"


B

[Brad Roberts]

We bounce back and forth between 100's and 125's for the street. If you use Koni's, go with the fully adjustable threaded perch and either a Eibach or H+R rear spring. Some people complain about the progressive rising rate Weltmesiter springs so we sell the Eibachs in 25lb increments. The Welts feel weird on the track, they start loading then get to the actual rating point (soft feel then sudden stiff) where as the Eibach is 100/125 right now all the time.. no waiting for the spring to "kick in"


B

[maf914]

Brad,

Is there an adjustable (threaded) collar and perch setup that fits Koni reds?

Mike

[ChrisFoley]

I happen to think the added stiffness with the Bilsteins, combined with a stock torsion bars, 100# rear springs and stock swaybars is a very nice handling setup for a street 914. In spite of the potholes, New England has some very exciting roads.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[JmuRiz]

I am running 135lb springs, 21mm torsion bars, red adj konis, with stock front and rear sway bars, also turbo tie rods. Oh yeah I'm also runing 16x6 fuchs rims also. Feels great on the street to me. Having a proper alignment and the lighter 911 fuchs wheels seem to have made the ride better even with the stiffer shocks and bars up front (after my upgrade). I will have to stiffen up the shocks for a HPDC or DE event, but it's great on the street. Enjoy.

[Brett W]

Neal go check out my ride @
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...2&t=5027&hl=car

I think Brad has some pictures on all914.com
http://www.all914.com/frames.php?c=4&page=...e=home/home.php

Those were taken before I got the airdam. I broke the black out two days after I put it in. That kinda sucked. Oh well.

[DNHunt]

I just did a suspension upgrade from stock that was without factory bars. I chose Koni yellows all around, Weltmeister street bushings all around, 150 # rears on adjustable perches, 21mm hollow torsion bars, a 19mm adjustable front swaybar, new ball joints, turbo tie rods and bump steer spacers. I lowered the car about 3/4" all the way around. Tires remained the same, Dunlaps 195 60 X 15s on Empi 15 X 6" rims. Did an aggressive street alignment with a corner balance. It's a completely different car.

I'm still trying to sort out what it will do. It certainly is a lot more fun. It's much flatter in the corners and I think the rear end stays hooked up better. It pushes on really tight slow corners but I can massage that with the throttle. The biggest change is the positive steering. Whatever you do with the suspension treat yourself to the turbo tie rods and a good alignment. It is so sweet.

I haven't hit any real teeth rattlers yet, but our recent cold and thaw has some pavement breaking up so my times coming. That's probably gonna hurt my 54 year old back, we'll see. It certainly rides mre stiffly and is more noisy, but I think the trade off is worth it. What so far has been the most annoying to me is on concrete on the interstate. The expansion joints pitch the car fore and aft so it sort of hobbyhorses. Kind of like when a boat porpoises only much quicker and much smaller amplitute. I find the smoothest lane and it's doable but really long trips (couple hundred miles) are going to be tiring.

All in all I'm really pleased. I just wish the weather would allow me to drive it more.

Dave

[maf914]

Dave,

How are those Welt bushings with grease fittings working out? Any squeeking or binding?

Mike

[DNHunt]

They seem to be fine. After I'd put it together once I decided I need to move the C ring on the shocks so I undid the nut on the top of the shock and didn't support the trailing arm. Big mistake The bushings are definitly not binding.

Dave