Hey Raby.... Options

[dbgriffith75]

I was just reading through this recent post....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=89572

...and I have some questions for you on the advice you gave 73-914kid... and I'm wondering where you were when I was reubuilding the engine in my teener (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I haven't seen a "perfect" stock cam come from a TIV engine in the past 15 years.. Post pics of it and DO NOT RE-USE IT! the cam is the second part installed into the engine and the most critical wear item of a TIV engine. If the cam goes south it's the second to last part you'll remove and replace and a full tear down is required. re-using a cam is like a very nasty game of Russian Roulette.

Question: What's the harm in re-using a cam if it's within specs? And I'm sure you're now going to sodomize me for this, but no one told me otherwise at the time; but when I rebuilt the engine for my teener I did re-use the cam. Now, I didn't just slap it together. After it was out I measured it, checked the tolerances and even had my shop guys take a look at it for me. They weren't Type IV experts by any means but they had some experience with them and told me the cam was in good shape to be used. PLUS- the engine had been rebuilt just prior to the PO parking the car for 10 years before I'd gotten ahold of it. The PO told me that he only put about 1000 miles on the engine before he parked it. So given that the cam was relatively new before being parked, what problems could I be looking at?

If you do the job correctly there isn't a lot of parts that you'll be able to reuse...

Like what? Please tell me pushrods, lifters, connecting rods, pistons, cylinders, wrist pins, valves, valve guides, rocker arms & shafts, pushrod tube retainer springs, oil pump, oil sump, oil pressure relief valve, oil cooler, and... well, okay, that's pretty much all I can think of.

I'm sure that's not the complete list, but those are all parts I re-used when rebuilding my engine. Again, I didn't just clean them up and slap it all together and hope for the best. I checked tolerances and condition on all of it and it all appeared to be in good shape.

The obvious such as bearings and gaskets and the like were replaced; and I know I replaced anything that I wasn't confident in re-using; but again I ask you what's the harm in re-using the parts if they're within acceptable specifications and condition?

Then again maybe these parts are kind of an exception to your rules given the fact that they only had 1000 miles on them before being parked for 10 years before I got a hold of them.

I'm just trying to make sure I didn't build a dud here... and if you tell me I did, I'm going to be very upset... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But seriously, I'm not trying to blame you or anybody else here on the 'World for not warning me about these things. It was my own fault for not asking.

So what's your verdict Mr. Raby? Did I rebuild this engine for nothing? Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[URY914]

Ask him directly at....

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/

[dbgriffith75]

Thanks for the link URY- but I'm in no big hurry to get his answers. The engine isn't even completely rebuilt(that is the main body is reassembled but it's not completely done)- and I've got hellhole work to do before I can reinstall it anyway. But since the engine is out and easily accessible, it would be a pain in the ass to rebuild it all over again but at least I'm making sure of it before I go any further.

[Jake Raby]

and I'm wondering where you were when I was reubuilding the engine in my teener

Same place I am now.. On top of a Mountain in North Georgia called Aircooled Heaven.


I can't reply to this thread very accurately at all..

Thats because I have no idea what the condition was of your components and speculation is the best I can offer and thats worth little to nothing.

If the engine is already together, you can't be afraid of it- just fire it up and drive it. If it becomes problematic or it fails then you know where the issues lie. You can't be afraid of failure, because if its your turn to experience it, nothing will keep it from occurring.

The enthusiast in the other post has his engine apart, so a multitude of things now applies to him and the future of the engine.

If it scatters pick up the pieces and start over, thats how I learned all this crazy knowledge. You learn more from failure than success.

[jmill]

Cams are finicky. I've had mixed results with re-using cams. If your positive that you have all the lifters lined up with the correct lobes you should be alright. With that said, I've flattened out lobes on re-using a cam once and I was sure that they were lined up correctly. A cam and lifters aren't that spendy. If your going to peal the engine apart you might as well replace them. It beats crossing your fingers hoping everything is going to be alright. Not to mention all the pretty little metal pieces your engine swallows when a cam lobe goes south. It only took one time for me to not do it again.

[Jake Raby]

I haven't ever torn down a TIV engine that had lifters that could be re-used within spec. They are the worst items within the engine for wear undoubtedly.

Even if they were not worn, the stock cam lacks drive-ability and efficiency compared to other application specific alternatives available today. Camshaft enhancement can decrease temperatures, increase power and even MPG as well as multiply the fun factor exponentially by broadening the engine's power band.

I haven't used a single stock cam in over 15 years.

[ericread]

You can't be afraid of failure, because if its your turn to experience it, nothing will keep it from occurring.

Well said!! And it applies to more than just engines.

Eric Read

[Root_Werks]

Hey Jake, do you make any cams for the D-Jet?

[Jake Raby]

Absolutely. My 9550 is specifically designed for the D Jet system.

It is the most popular grind in my library, we sell hundreds of them per year. Never once had a review from anyone that didn't love it.

[messix]

Absolutely. My 9550 is specifically designed for the D Jet system.

It is the most popular grind in my library, we sell hundreds of them per year. Never once had a review from anyone that didn't love it.

how 'bout a Ljet hydro... you got anything that works good along that set up...maybe on a 1911?

[Root_Werks]

Absolutely. My 9550 is specifically designed for the D Jet system.

It is the most popular grind in my library, we sell hundreds of them per year. Never once had a review from anyone that didn't love it.

I'll be grabbing one of those with lifters from you after the holidays I'm sure. The 914 I have now will stay a 2.0 4cyl, maybe 2056, but probably just 2.0. It'd be nice to take it down during the hard winter and freshen it up.

Thanks.

[Jake Raby]

Absolutely. My 9550 is specifically designed for the D Jet system.

It is the most popular grind in my library, we sell hundreds of them per year. Never once had a review from anyone that didn't love it.

how 'bout a Ljet hydro... you got anything that works good along that set up...maybe on a 1911?

I have nothing for Hydraulic arrangements...

[messix]

Absolutely. My 9550 is specifically designed for the D Jet system.

It is the most popular grind in my library, we sell hundreds of them per year. Never once had a review from anyone that didn't love it.

how 'bout a Ljet hydro... you got anything that works good along that set up...maybe on a 1911?

I have nothing for Hydraulic arrangements...

so restrained..... Jake must be keeping up on his meds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

just messin' with ya Jake, i know where you stand on juice lifters.

[dbgriffith75]

I'm hardly afraid of the engine.

I just figured if I'd have royally fucked everything up by reusing the parts, why bother going to the trouble of reinstalling the engine, firing it up and having it blow up on me anyway?

But, since it is already together, and you're telling me go for it, that's good enough for me. You're right that the only thing to do now is see what happens; so thanks for the advice.

['73-914kid]

Hey, that's me you're talking about!

Yes, the engine is completely apart, and boy does it need some work


My opinion is just drive it!
Many time's, guys with V8's will pull everything out of the block, send them to a machine shop to have everything reconditioned, and then they put it back together with the SAME, ORIGINAL parts! and they work just fine with very few failures.

Not slamming you at all Raby, as I take your advice as the truth and from someone who know's a whole helluva lot more than me, but.......since it's together, just drive it and enjoy it!

[messix]

Hey, that's me you're talking about!

Yes, the engine is completely apart, and boy does it need some work


My opinion is just drive it!
Many time's, guys with V8's will pull everything out of the block, send them to a machine shop to have everything reconditioned, and then they put it back together with the SAME, ORIGINAL parts! and they work just fine with very few failures.

Not slamming you at all Raby, as I take your advice as the truth and from someone who know's a whole helluva lot more than me, but.......since it's together, just drive it and enjoy it!

not cam and lifters..... they must be kept track of which bore and lobe they came from and go back together the same place, it'll eat them up fast if not.
you could reuse a cam with brand lifters if you screwed up and didn't keep track of the ones you took out.

and never reuse bearings! there just to cheep not to freshen up with new ones

[Jake Raby]

The Type 4 isn't a V8, V6 or flat 6. The things you can skimp by with on some other engines cannot be done with this very "picky" engine. The first thing you must realize as a TIV enthusiast is that NOTHING you have learned from other engines can be applied to this engine without risk of failure.

The Type 4 is just that and nothing else.