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> Why pop up headlights ?, Philosophic question ...
johannes
post Dec 16 2008, 06:04 PM
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As the 914 was supposed to be cheaper than the 911 why did they go the pop up way ?
I was told, the 914 had to feature popup headlights because the US regulation mandated a minimum height for the headlights ...
I made some searches on the Internet and found this excellent wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp ... They tell a lot about the 7' round, shaped, sealed lamps ... but there is no information about height.
Can you light me ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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charliew
post Dec 16 2008, 06:38 PM
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Same way with the fiero. It's a pretty expensive way to do headlights.
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Joe Bob
post Dec 16 2008, 06:43 PM
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Try looking in the State Motor Vehicle Regs. There's a minimum and a maximum height. I knew a guy that had a Monster Truck and got tagged for stock headlights that ended up being too high off the roadway. He had to mount lights lower and disable the stockers...
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r_towle
post Dec 16 2008, 07:28 PM
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Same issue with emmissions and the 75/76 bumper upgrade. These are state or nationally mandated laws. NHSTA is the federal agency that typically mandates things like headlight height, windshields etc.

This is the same as what the EU just did to make the BMW look like a truck.
They raised the pedestrain zone to make all EU cars look like crap.

Rich


QUOTE(johannes @ Dec 16 2008, 07:04 PM) *

As the 914 was supposed to be cheaper than the 911 why did they go the pop up way ?
I was told, the 914 had to feature popup headlights because the US regulation mandated a minimum height for the headlights ...
I made some searches on the Internet and found this excellent wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp ... They tell a lot about the 7' round, shaped, sealed lamps ... but there is no information about height.
Can you light me ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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jimkelly
post Dec 16 2008, 08:33 PM
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aerodynamic drag - at least when the sun is up you would gain some amount of coefficient : )

me - i ride with my lights on and up always - as i don want to lessen the chance of getting tagged by an inattentive driver.

jim
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effutuo101
post Dec 16 2008, 09:33 PM
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I got a ticket in California when I was a kid. the cop told me 18 inches from the road to the center of the headlight. I was at 17 inches.
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johannes
post Dec 17 2008, 03:19 AM
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I read somewere:

AK, AL, AR, AZ, DC, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IN, KS, LA, MD, MI, ND, NH, NJ, NV, SC, TX, WA, WI - Height of headlamps must be at least 24 inches from the ground
CA, CT, ME, MT, OK - Height of headlamps must be at least 22 inches from the ground
NM - Height of headlamps must be at least 20 inches from the ground



Taillights

AL, AR, CO, DE, GA, IA, ID, IN, MD, NH, NJ, NM, RI, SC, WI - Taillights must be at least 20 inches off the ground
AZ, CT, DC, KS, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX, WA - Taillights must be at least 15 inches off the ground
CA - Taillights for post-'69 vehicles must be at a height of at least 15 inches
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6freak
post Dec 17 2008, 07:56 AM
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QUOTE(jimkelly @ Dec 16 2008, 06:33 PM) *

aerodynamic drag - at least when the sun is up you would gain some amount of coefficient : )

me - i ride with my lights on and up always - as i don want to lessen the chance of getting tagged by an inattentive driver.

jim


Your aerodynamic comment is more true then you think.The 914 was one of Porsche`s most aerodynamic cars ever produced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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URY914
post Dec 17 2008, 08:04 AM
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The 914 cd rating was just a hair lower than a 911 IIRC. The worst thing about the 914 was the air coming off the roof. The 911 had much cleaner air flow on the rear end.

Also the 914's flat door handles helped the cd over the 911's handles which stuck out from the doors. But the 914's handles break easy....
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johannes
post Dec 17 2008, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE(6freak @ Dec 17 2008, 05:56 AM) *

QUOTE(jimkelly @ Dec 16 2008, 06:33 PM) *

aerodynamic drag - at least when the sun is up you would gain some amount of coefficient : )

me - i ride with my lights on and up always - as i don want to lessen the chance of getting tagged by an inattentive driver.

jim


Your aerodynamic comment is more true then you think.The 914 was one of Porsche`s most aerodynamic cars ever produced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Is there a chart somewere with all the CX and SCX figures for the Porsche brand ?
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6freak
post Dec 17 2008, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE(johannes @ Dec 17 2008, 06:11 AM) *

QUOTE(6freak @ Dec 17 2008, 05:56 AM) *

QUOTE(jimkelly @ Dec 16 2008, 06:33 PM) *

aerodynamic drag - at least when the sun is up you would gain some amount of coefficient : )

me - i ride with my lights on and up always - as i don want to lessen the chance of getting tagged by an inattentive driver.

jim


Your aerodynamic comment is more true then you think.The 914 was one of Porsche`s most aerodynamic cars ever produced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Is there a chart somewere with all the CX and SCX figures for the Porsche brand ?


yes and im sure someone will post it soon ...the #`s will tell use the facts
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Eric_Shea
post Dec 17 2008, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE
The worst thing about the 914 was the air coming off the roof. The 911 had much cleaner air flow on the rear end.


Paul, I'm confused. I would have though "spoiling" the airflow over the rear end would be the best thing about a 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

By putting a duck tail "spoiler" on the back of my 911 it reduced the cleanliness by -113lbs. (of lift) per corner.
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johannes
post Dec 17 2008, 09:23 AM
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I don't think the CX of the 914 is that good because of the boxy top and boxy tail ... But the SCX must be better than the 911 because of the 914's smaller surface (S).
The more I think about the decision fo making the popup was a mix of ...
- Headlight Minimum Height regulation
- Drag reduction
- Trend

.
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Root_Werks
post Dec 17 2008, 09:23 AM
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QUOTE(johannes @ Dec 17 2008, 01:19 AM) *

I read somewere:

AK, AL, AR, AZ, DC, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IN, KS, LA, MD, MI, ND, NH, NJ, NV, SC, TX, WA, WI - Height of headlamps must be at least 24 inches from the ground
CA, CT, ME, MT, OK - Height of headlamps must be at least 22 inches from the ground
NM - Height of headlamps must be at least 20 inches from the ground



Taillights

AL, AR, CO, DE, GA, IA, ID, IN, MD, NH, NJ, NM, RI, SC, WI - Taillights must be at least 20 inches off the ground
AZ, CT, DC, KS, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX, WA - Taillights must be at least 15 inches off the ground
CA - Taillights for post-'69 vehicles must be at a height of at least 15 inches



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Yup, that's why you have cars with pop-ups. Well, some of the 80's were for styling, but mostly so the car could have a lower hood line and look cooler.
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Demick
post Dec 17 2008, 09:36 AM
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You're all wrong. The real purpose of the pop-ups are to let the ladies know when they've got your attention!!


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URY914
post Dec 17 2008, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Dec 17 2008, 07:31 AM) *

QUOTE
The worst thing about the 914 was the air coming off the roof. The 911 had much cleaner air flow on the rear end.


Paul, I'm confused. I would have though "spoiling" the airflow over the rear end would be the best thing about a 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

By putting a duck tail "spoiler" on the back of my 911 it reduced the cleanliness by -113lbs. (of lift) per corner.


I know you're confused, but the drop off of the 914 roof line is a bad thing.
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neo914-6
post Dec 17 2008, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE(johannes @ Dec 17 2008, 07:23 AM) *

I don't think the CX of the 914 is that good because of the boxy top and boxy tail ... But the SCX must be better than the 911 because of the 914's smaller surface (S).
The more I think about the decision fo making the popup was a mix of ...
- Headlight Minimum Height regulation
- Drag reduction
- Trend

.


The later, styling is more likely.
- The signal pods are about the right height
- Drag on pop-ups are only reduced in the daytime and yields minimal benefits. Cd is mostly frontal cross section.
- "Trend", hidden pop-up headlights helped designers emphasize the slope or aerodynamic shape popular in the 70's. Most if not all current cars have abandoned pop-ups and incorporate head lights into the body.

62 Lotus Elan
63 Chevrolet Corvette (until 04 Z06)
66 Lamborghini Miura (non covered pop ups)
67 Toyota 2000GT
68 Ferrari 365 Daytona
68 Opel GT
69 Porsche 914
69 Mercedes-Benz C111 (prototype)
70 Lotus Elan +2
71 Vector (prototype)
71 Ferrari 365 GTC/4
71 Maserati Bora/Merak
71 De Tomaso Pantera
72 Fiat x/19
72 Lancia Stratos
73 Ferrari Dino 308 GT4
73 Ferrari 512BB
74 Triumph TR7
74 Lotus Elite, Eclat
74 Lamborghini Countach
76 Porsche 924
77 Porsche 928
78 BMW M1
81 TVR Tasmin
82 Toyota Celica Supra (until 02)
84 Toyota MR2 (until 98)
84 Pontiac Fiero
89 BMW 850
89 Lotus Elan
90 Acura NSX (until 02)
91 Saturn SC

looks like the '03 Vette was the last to use them (40 years)...
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highways
post Dec 17 2008, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE(Demick @ Dec 17 2008, 07:36 AM) *

You're all wrong. The real purpose of the pop-ups are to let the ladies know when they've got your attention!!


nice subliminal advertising there... the strategically framed headlight.
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yellow914
post Dec 17 2008, 01:26 PM
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I know this might be going O.T. a bit...but given the overall height and size of the 914 I too drive most often with the lights up and on due to the reoccuring near misses I seem to "enjoy" on my daily commute. Certainly given the up swing in SUV's on the road most Soccer moms don't look or notice the 914 size. Secondly, I though about removing (and moving) the fender turn signals and putting in the smaller beam sized head lights from newer cars with clear covers and moving the turn signals to a flush side mount....thus keeping the cleaner lines and always having "LIGHTS" on....
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6freak
post Dec 17 2008, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE(URY914 @ Dec 17 2008, 08:19 AM) *

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Dec 17 2008, 07:31 AM) *

QUOTE
The worst thing about the 914 was the air coming off the roof. The 911 had much cleaner air flow on the rear end.


Paul, I'm confused. I would have though "spoiling" the airflow over the rear end would be the best thing about a 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

By putting a duck tail "spoiler" on the back of my 911 it reduced the cleanliness by -113lbs. (of lift) per corner.


I know you're confused, but the drop off of the 914 roof line is a bad thing.


I respectfully disagree.it breaks up the drag surface..A golf ball flys farther with dimples then with out..thats a fact..we need someone to find it in a book and post it
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