F-You Colorado! more emission headaches, I may loose my registration |
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F-You Colorado! more emission headaches, I may loose my registration |
newto914s |
Jun 29 2009, 02:07 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 561 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Thornton, CO Member No.: 1,663 |
With the help of some of the great Colorado 914 guys(notably Mike and Chris W) i got my car to pass the e-check. Read about it here.
I thought everything was fine and dandy. With my 5 year collector plates on it I never have to worry about emissions again(bring on the SBC). But in Colorado they have these white child molester looking vans that sit on the highway entrance ramps. They use a laser to measure the emission of all the car entering. I drove by one and got a letter in the mail. Now I have to bring my car to a state inspector for another evaluation or my registration will be revoked and a $100 fine imposed. Their's no way I'm going to pass now, with no Cat an no smog pump. The irony is my car runs better than it ever has. F-U CO |
Gint |
Jul 1 2009, 05:55 PM
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#2
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Mike Ginter Group: Admin Posts: 16,083 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Denver CO. Member No.: 20 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I just called - the year does not matter. First of all, this is a state program, with state employees (no subcontractors). The inspection guys that will be looking at your car are master techs. The guy I spoke to was a Lotus and flat head V8 specialist. The guy who does the air cooled stuff has supposably been a PCA guy "forever" - he even asked me if this conversation came up while we were at the Parade. The limits set are passable by any correctly running car - at any RPM - from any era as far back as you can go. What they are doing is trying to keep us from doing what alot of us do - get the classic plate and then modify the motor into what they deem a gross polluter. If anyone falls outside of these limits, they must go get an inspection. If anything has been modified from stock - including the removal of airpumps and cats, we could be screwed. I asked him how he was sure that these inspectors know what they are looking at. He said they "we are not the minimum wage employees that work for the usual emissions testing stations". I did forget to ask about unobtainable/obsolete parts (like the airpumps). He was nice enough - but it was like talking to a cop. Gints philosophy is what I will be adopting - turn around and go the other way. I am running a euro rear plate with my real one in the rear window. I may just pull it down if I ever get trapped. I did ask him when they were going to start putting these testing stations at the entrances of car shows, that way they could both kill the hobby and make a pile of money all at once. He didn't find it funny. One last thing, these machines are taking readings in a way that if you have a lawn mower or a gas can in the bed of a truck, or if your missing your gas cap (or even have a poorly sealing one) you will most likely get that letter. He said he has seen that on several occasions - but you will still need to get the inspection. I figured that was going to be the deal. I do believe my 914 as rich as it runs will pass the roadside sniffer because I've gone by one before. But if I see the truck when I'm driving the 914 I go the other way and avoid it completely. |
ericread |
Jul 4 2009, 08:41 PM
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#3
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The Viper Blue 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,177 Joined: 7-December 07 From: Irvine, CA (The OC) Member No.: 8,432 Region Association: Southern California |
There have been a number of threads regarding different states that seem to echo the following:
...What they are doing is trying to keep us from doing what alot of us do - get the classic plate and then modify the motor into what they deem a gross polluter. If anyone falls outside of these limits, they must go get an inspection. If anything has been modified from stock - including the removal of airpumps and cats, we could be screwed... Given that the participants of this BBS are pretty darned smart, I don't really understand the uproar. We know that in some states our cars (1975 and older) have been exempted from annual smog testing. We also know that although we may be exempted from annual testing, we have not been exempted from meeting specific smog requirements. The argument is that once the car has been licensed, then we are free to do what we want, beacuse the states don't have any way to find out what we've done. Now that the states may have found a way to see if we cheated, we may be caught. What's the problem? If you've made any significant changes to your smog system, or if you happened to put a different engine into your 914, and if your 914 doesn't meet smog requirements, you're may end up having to follow the law, like a lot of us do every day. The technicality of not needing an annual test, or of getting a "classic" plate was never intended to provide you with a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. That some people here interpreted it as such poses significant risk to them. If you are planning a "track" car, then use it at the track. Otherwise, it appears we will all have to follow the law. Flame on..... Eric Read |
ghuff |
Jul 5 2009, 10:55 PM
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#4
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This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
There have been a number of threads regarding different states that seem to echo the following: ...What they are doing is trying to keep us from doing what alot of us do - get the classic plate and then modify the motor into what they deem a gross polluter. If anyone falls outside of these limits, they must go get an inspection. If anything has been modified from stock - including the removal of airpumps and cats, we could be screwed... Given that the participants of this BBS are pretty darned smart, I don't really understand the uproar. We know that in some states our cars (1975 and older) have been exempted from annual smog testing. We also know that although we may be exempted from annual testing, we have not been exempted from meeting specific smog requirements. The argument is that once the car has been licensed, then we are free to do what we want, beacuse the states don't have any way to find out what we've done. Now that the states may have found a way to see if we cheated, we may be caught. What's the problem? If you've made any significant changes to your smog system, or if you happened to put a different engine into your 914, and if your 914 doesn't meet smog requirements, you're may end up having to follow the law, like a lot of us do every day. The technicality of not needing an annual test, or of getting a "classic" plate was never intended to provide you with a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. That some people here interpreted it as such poses significant risk to them. If you are planning a "track" car, then use it at the track. Otherwise, it appears we will all have to follow the law. Flame on..... Eric Read Given what we have seen this law is pretty inaccurate if I read an above posters message right. He quoted some testing figures for the 6 that were beyond that which the original posters car put out, but accepted by the state. That right there shows this is purely a money/power grab type issue. Is that not an issue? I mean correct me if I am wrong. The very fact that there is conflicting senses of obligation to an authority here should be a clue that something is not right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) It stinks. There is no excuse on a state level for two sets of standards or agencies. The validity of this needs to be challenged. A reasonable set of standards needs to be there for vehicles in which certain replace parts such as EGR or other bits are no longer available for limited use and mileage. That is my understanding historically part of the reasoning why classic and antique vehicle tags exist. They are limited mileage and some states have hot-rod or street rod tags which allow limited street use to/from shows and events. Not everyone has a big block turbo chevy runnin 11:1 AFR at idle with no cats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Why do we not focus on emissions where it counts, such as industry and power plants etc? |
ArtechnikA |
Jul 6 2009, 05:06 AM
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#5
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
...testing figures for the 6 that were beyond that which the original posters car put out, but accepted by the state. That right there shows this is purely a money/power grab type issue. Is that not an issue? I mean correct me if I am wrong. QUOTE ...There is no excuse on a state level for two sets of standards or agencies. I agree. You need to take a deep breath and realize that is _not_ what is happening here. The roadside remote sensor DOES NOT establish, set, or enforce emissions standards for a particular vehicle. It has a (fairly low) threshold level of specific (easily measured...) emissions gasses. It ONLY establishes a threshold level that requires an INSPECTION by certified technicians that DO apply individual emissions standards to a SPECIFIC car in reference to the applicable law. Pass the inspection and you're OK. Compare it to DUI law. You're flagged into a random checkpoint. You do not cooperate and you refuse the blood test. In most states, refusal to comply with the test is a guilty plea, end of story. Same thing here - your vehicle is seen with a big emissions profile. If you refuse the inspection, it's taken as an admission of guilt. Pass the inspection and be on your way. If your car meets its applicable standards as required by current law, it should pass. If it can't, it should fail. If you thought the end of periodic inspection was your free pass to remove factory-installed emissions-control equipment, you guessed wrong. (And here is where I am at odds with California and many other states: IMO - if you *CAN* meet the standards, it shouldn't matter whether you did it with the factory parts or not.) There are damn few internal combustion motor vehicles that are TOTALLY exempt from all emissions standards. (I have one that meets even CARB requirements. Hint: anything older than 1955 is free...) BTW - The "go after some real criminals" defense is always going to be a non-starter. |
ericread |
Jul 6 2009, 01:20 PM
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#6
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The Viper Blue 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,177 Joined: 7-December 07 From: Irvine, CA (The OC) Member No.: 8,432 Region Association: Southern California |
...testing figures for the 6 that were beyond that which the original posters car put out, but accepted by the state. That right there shows this is purely a money/power grab type issue. Is that not an issue? I mean correct me if I am wrong. QUOTE ...There is no excuse on a state level for two sets of standards or agencies. I agree. You need to take a deep breath and realize that is _not_ what is happening here. The roadside remote sensor DOES NOT establish, set, or enforce emissions standards for a particular vehicle. It has a (fairly low) threshold level of specific (easily measured...) emissions gasses. It ONLY establishes a threshold level that requires an INSPECTION by certified technicians that DO apply individual emissions standards to a SPECIFIC car in reference to the applicable law. Pass the inspection and you're OK. Compare it to DUI law. You're flagged into a random checkpoint. You do not cooperate and you refuse the blood test. In most states, refusal to comply with the test is a guilty plea, end of story. Same thing here - your vehicle is seen with a big emissions profile. If you refuse the inspection, it's taken as an admission of guilt. Pass the inspection and be on your way. If your car meets its applicable standards as required by current law, it should pass. If it can't, it should fail. If you thought the end of periodic inspection was your free pass to remove factory-installed emissions-control equipment, you guessed wrong. (And here is where I am at odds with California and many other states: IMO - if you *CAN* meet the standards, it shouldn't matter whether you did it with the factory parts or not.) There are damn few internal combustion motor vehicles that are TOTALLY exempt from all emissions standards. (I have one that meets even CARB requirements. Hint: anything older than 1955 is free...) BTW - The "go after some real criminals" defense is always going to be a non-starter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Well said! Eric |
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