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> KitCarlson EMS Poll, How many should I build ???
KitCarlson
post Feb 11 2004, 04:21 PM
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Hey,

I know this question has a difficult answer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I would like to know a ball park number of EMS units to build in the first release. I need to order the mechanical parts and work with a contract manufacturer for the board build. Setup costs can be a significant cost for small orders. Lead time is also a concern.

Why is this question difficult? You are being asked to suggest to me your potential interest without knowing the exact cost or performance of the system.

The beta test unit is not yet in operation due to Brad's move. It was my hope to have un-biased tests in progress at this time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I have been working on the system full time since the start in October. The next step is to be production ready.

For those wondering what is the EMS. It is an engine management system that provides direct ignition, fuel, idle, and turbo boost control for VW and Porsche engines. It uses a special optical distributor sensor means to avoid the mechanical difficulties in crank/cam sensors. The ignition timing is electronic. The unit provides an easy upgrade for the D-Jetronic or L-Jetronic systems. The system will be sold turn-key with all parts and harness.
For more information please visit: http://home.mindspring.com/~dave.c/kitcarlson/

Please use a personal message to suggest your interest. I will answer questions you may have.

I really appreciate this BB that works to unite all 914 owners, and a means to conduct this poll.

Kit
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KitCarlson
post Feb 15 2004, 01:15 PM
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F4i,
I have thought about the upgrade of the FI to full EMS, buying complete will cost less. For future upgrades certain parts will have to be installed on the FI unit and not used, there will also be an additional inline sensor that conditions ignition signals for use for sync of the fuel injection. What is saved in FI only, is the quad coil, distributor and some wiring.

The optimal dwell control, and the ability to alter timing maps, and the elimination of the rotor are the main reasons to go with the complete system.

Here is more for info for the technical curious:

The dual coil (quad terminal) arrangement creates more spark energy more efficiently than a conventional single coil ignition. With a conventional system, the dwell time is a certain number of degrees, 48 for example. When the engine revolves slow at idle the 48 degrees is a long period of time, wasting energy and at high rpm it is very short, resulting in the coil not being completely charged. The coil takes a finite period of time to charge depending on coil inductance, battery voltage and series resistance. The EMS takes all of this into account and fully charges the coils for each ignition event. The two coils allow overlap of charging, and greater RPM potential not possible with the single coil. The EMS ignition eliminates the rotor and distributor function of the distributor cap.

The stock distributor cap with close spacing and lack of internal ribs is a problem area when a more powerful CDI or ignition is fitted. The EMS direct-fire approach, coil to plug arrangement is the way to go. Some have wondered why not coil-on-plug? There is an economy in using the quad coil arrangement, less power drivers, less coils and wiring. Heat is also an issue at the plug for air cooled engines. Coils and heat do not go well together for long term reliability. Otherwise the advantage of the coil-on-plug, is to eliminate the high tension wires.

Kit
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Posts in this topic
KitCarlson   KitCarlson EMS Poll   Feb 11 2004, 04:21 PM
Mueller   Tough call.....I know there is a market for it and...   Feb 11 2004, 04:41 PM
KitCarlson   Mueller, You have good comments. :trophy: The ...   Feb 11 2004, 05:30 PM
Targa   Mueller is on the money! It WILL have to be co...   Feb 11 2004, 06:00 PM
ThinAir914   I'm interested - eventually. Unfortunately I ...   Feb 11 2004, 06:18 PM
KitCarlson   Targa, 160 HP with stock injectors should not be ...   Feb 11 2004, 06:31 PM
94teener   If the system will work with supercharger boost, I...   Feb 11 2004, 06:50 PM
Targa   Kit, Thanks for your thorough and prompt answers....   Feb 11 2004, 06:54 PM
Mark Henry   Whatever the number of people who say they want on...   Feb 11 2004, 07:00 PM
nebreitling   i'm certainly interested, my main factors are ...   Feb 11 2004, 07:39 PM
KitCarlson   Phil, Yes there is a EMS version for boost applica...   Feb 11 2004, 07:41 PM
Brad Roberts   Electricity was turned on TODAY. I can now start w...   Feb 11 2004, 07:48 PM
tracks914   Forgive my ignorance but what is the point of this...   Feb 11 2004, 08:48 PM
JoshuaSkinner   I'm interested as I want to turbo the 1.8 in m...   Feb 11 2004, 09:14 PM
RD Evans   I am very interest in a system to replace a single...   Feb 11 2004, 09:37 PM
KitCarlson   I will try to provide as many answers as possible ...   Feb 11 2004, 10:49 PM
Andyrew   How much$? I didnt see it anywhere, and most...   Feb 11 2004, 10:57 PM
Bleyseng   I too was wondering how much, I thought maybe my o...   Feb 11 2004, 11:07 PM
Air_Cooled_Nut   Kit, I'm looking for a FI system for my <...   Feb 12 2004, 12:25 AM
Racer Chris   If the control unit can be made to fit in the fact...   Feb 12 2004, 12:34 AM
bernbomb914   I would be interested in buying your product now a...   Feb 12 2004, 12:45 AM
kdfoust   Kit; I'm pretty excited about this kit becaus...   Feb 12 2004, 01:56 AM
KitCarlson   More answers: The EMS Kit will cost more than ...   Feb 12 2004, 08:40 AM
KitCarlson   On the EMS communications: This may only make sen...   Feb 12 2004, 10:09 AM
Hi_Fi_Guy   I have a RAT 2270 and would be VERY interested. ...   Feb 12 2004, 11:56 AM
Air_Cooled_Nut   From the sounds of it, you would simply download t...   Feb 12 2004, 03:33 PM
seanery   Hey everyone, if you think 2k is overpriced then p...   Feb 12 2004, 03:41 PM
DuckRyder   Here is my view on pricing. I think it can cost m...   Feb 12 2004, 05:28 PM
Mark Henry   Both seanery [u]AND Air_Cooled_Nut are correct abo...   Feb 12 2004, 05:36 PM
Cloudbuster   Kit, A not so hypothetical scenario: I've go...   Feb 12 2004, 05:45 PM
KitCarlson   Cloudbuster, Yes, swap parts, replace vane air met...   Feb 12 2004, 07:47 PM
DuckRyder  
QUOTE
  Feb 12 2004, 08:00 PM
Carrera916   Kit, After reading this thread and your website a...   Feb 12 2004, 11:44 PM
KitCarlson  
QUOTE
  Feb 13 2004, 09:40 AM
rhodyguy   what is the "tube" that replaces the "vane"? as th...   Feb 13 2004, 09:55 AM
Bleyseng   Kevin, he states that it uses a electronic pressur...   Feb 13 2004, 10:05 AM
rhodyguy   so the monster air filter box goes away? i still h...   Feb 13 2004, 10:14 AM
darisb   Kit, I've been watching your project, with in...   Feb 13 2004, 10:26 AM
Mueller  
QUOTE
  Feb 13 2004, 10:40 AM
rhodyguy   maybe just some pvc pipe and a cone filter? kevin   Feb 13 2004, 10:50 AM
mike_the_man   One thing I was wondering about; What type of sup...   Feb 13 2004, 10:59 AM
KitCarlson   Sorry could not include Word Document drawing of c...   Feb 13 2004, 11:07 AM
DNHunt   I don't know if this would help but I've c...   Feb 13 2004, 11:57 AM
crash914   Check out these throttle bodies......Now I have a ...   Feb 13 2004, 12:08 PM
rhodyguy   you know what? you still have to dial in the linka...   Feb 13 2004, 12:45 PM
Air_Cooled_Nut   ...   Feb 13 2004, 12:56 PM
Air_Cooled_Nut     Feb 13 2004, 12:58 PM
cha914   Sounds like a great system...but for us carb guys ...   Feb 13 2004, 01:36 PM
KitCarlson   Cha914, You will need D-jet intakes, injectors, th...   Feb 13 2004, 02:12 PM
KitCarlson   All, Thanks for all the good comments and advice....   Feb 15 2004, 09:37 AM
F4i   I too am very interested in your kit. I am also im...   Feb 15 2004, 10:49 AM
KitCarlson   F4i, I have thought about the upgrade of the FI t...   Feb 15 2004, 01:15 PM
Mark Henry   So I take it this is a wasted spark system. (NOT t...   Feb 15 2004, 01:32 PM
KitCarlson   Mark, Yes, the system is a waste fire. 1 & 3 in ...   Feb 15 2004, 01:57 PM
bernbomb914   What would be better D jet or L jet systems I have...   Feb 15 2004, 07:44 PM
KitCarlson   Bernie, The D-jet does not require the tube to re...   Feb 16 2004, 08:06 AM
Mark Henry  
  Feb 16 2004, 01:01 PM
F4i   I was mostly wondering for cost comparison. I am m...   Feb 16 2004, 01:25 PM
Gary   Kit, Depending on the price point, I'll likel...   Feb 16 2004, 02:10 PM


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