MPS- delving into it's secrets?, Update January 3, 2011 Options

[jk76.914]

I collected a number of MPS over a couple of years. Most held vacuum, some did not. I measured inductance vs. vacuum on those that I could, but then took all of them apart (except one brand new one).

The is a lot of variety in the diaphrams, probably because they get replaced when virtually every MPS is rebuilt. The photo below shows four diaphrams. I'll follow with descriptions and observations...



#1- copper, 2 pleats. This came from a rebuilt MPS that was in a pond or river for some time. There was actually sand in it, along with tiny aquatic snail shells of some sort, and the copper was pretty much green. This diaphram was ruptured. The workmanship is very good, and the alloy is idential to stock (see chart below). The threaded bushing looks like stock in design and attachment.

#2- copper, 3 pleats. This is a stock diaphram from a riveted MPS. It is ruptured.

#3- brass, 2 pleats. This is from a rebuilt MPS. I have three of these diaphrams, all similar. This MPS was freshly rebuilt in a rebuilder's box. Looked like new with fresh paint and plastic cap on vacuum port, but it leaked slightly. You can see why when you look at the ripples in that flange. The O.D. looks like it was cut out by hand with tin snips, and the threaded bushing was taken from a stock diaphram and soldered by hand into place. At the bottom in the picture, you can see that the flange is pretty smooth- that's where I tapped it out with a machinist's hammer on an anvil. I have no doubt that the leakage was from around the O.D. of the diaphram, and that tapping it out would probably fix it. This material (brass, see chart below) is stiffer and thicker than any of the rest. It would add quite a bit of spring tension to the mass-spring-damper system. In general, I rate the workmanship on this as "crappy", though maybe you could get a running car out of it.

#4- stainless steel, 3 pleats. This one is a bit of an enigma. It is identical to stock except that it is made from stainless (see chart below). The workmanship is perfect. It is from a rebuilt MPS. Interestingly, it is the MOST COMPLIANT of all of them, while most steel ones are reported to be stiffer. The other part of the enigma- the aneroid cells from this MPS are also stainless- same alloy. My suspicion is that this is a late Bosch rebuilt. Who else would make stainless cells, because the cells don't fail very often, so there are lots of spares available out there, and the cells are pretty complicated to make...


*** EDITED *** Materials. I measured alloy composition at work using an X-Ray Fluorescence analyzer. This machine is very precise, but it has limits to the range of elements that it can detect. Unfortunately, it cannot detect Beryllium (Be), and it is likely that the stock (at least) diaphram contains Be to harden and strengthen it. You can see a couple of things here though- the stainless diaphram and stainless cells are of exactly the same composition- nickel-chromium stainless steel. The nickel explains why they are slightly magnetic, as many stainless alloys are not. ***



Conclusions (really opinions) - The diaphram was put in there (early VW D-jets did not have one) to provide altitude compensation and to soften transition from leaner (high vacuum) to richer (low vacuum) regions. Early D-Jets had a separate unit with a diaphram and a switch to inform the ECU to richen the mixture at low vacuum. Cost reduction may have been a third reason- eliminating the separate unit, wiring, vacuum hose, etc. Anyway, this switch was either on or off, no soft transition. The MPS had only 2 aneroid cells and no diaphram, and its inductance curve was essentially a straight line from 0" to 25". There was no mixture compensation for altitude with this arrangement.

I'm thinking that the lower the stiffness of the diaphram, the more consistency in the setup and responsiveness, while both of these objectives are met. By maximizing compliance of the diaphram, the springs acting in the system are mainly the coil spring and the leaf springs that act to locate the armature.

My stainless diaphram is the most compliant, but there is another feature of steel (if I remember correctly) that adds to the argument that this is a late Bosch design- steel has a much higher Youngs modulus than copper. The higher the Youngs modulus, the greater the fatigue resistance, and the vastly most common failure mode of the MPS is fatigue failure. Could this have been a Bosch attempt to solve a reliability problem, even as the technology was being superceded by more modern ones? Since the cells are also subject to fatigue, would they have switched them over at the same time?

I am planning on assembling my own personal MPS using the stainless parts, and seeing how close I can tune it to my engine.

There are lots of other parts in the MPS that I've formed opinions about, but I'll hold off for now.

These are my own opinions, which may not be popular, so BLAST AWAY!!

(eye candy below)

[McMark]

Jim, tuning is the real issue with a home rebuild kit. The best part about a factory rebuild would be that it's a 5min install and you can trust that it's right.

[Bleyseng]

Jim, tuning is the real issue with a home rebuild kit. The best part about a factory rebuild would be that it's a 5min install and you can trust that it's right.

Tuning to the known settings is pretty easy, the problem is most engines are slightly modified from stock these days. Close but tuning with a LM1 O2 setup gets you right there. New outta the box MPSs from Bosch would be set to their settings from what, 30 years ago for Brand New engines.
I have had a couple of NOS 043 that were set all over the place...and I set them to the "correct" setting I knew worked right.
I would rather have a repair kit of new parts to do the job myself so I could tune the MPS to a engine with its own quirks.

[jk76.914]

Jim, tuning is the real issue with a home rebuild kit. The best part about a factory rebuild would be that it's a 5min install and you can trust that it's right.

Tuning to the known settings is pretty easy, the problem is most engines are slightly modified from stock these days. Close but tuning with a LM1 O2 setup gets you right there. New outta the box MPSs from Bosch would be set to their settings from what, 30 years ago for Brand New engines.
I have had a couple of NOS 043 that were set all over the place...and I set them to the "correct" setting I knew worked right.
I would rather have a repair kit of new parts to do the job myself so I could tune the MPS to a engine with its own quirks.

I'm with you. The carb guys haven't weighed in. Would they take a new set of Webers and plunk them onto the car, and then never dial them in? I think not.

And either way, you really should have access to an AFR meter. I'm going to try and use a PLX Devices unit. Got it for Christmas. Haven't tried it yet... And inductance meters have come way down. I think I paid $40 for mine brand new.

[Larouex]

Jim, tuning is the real issue with a home rebuild kit. The best part about a factory rebuild would be that it's a 5min install and you can trust that it's right.

Tuning to the known settings is pretty easy, the problem is most engines are slightly modified from stock these days. Close but tuning with a LM1 O2 setup gets you right there. New outta the box MPSs from Bosch would be set to their settings from what, 30 years ago for Brand New engines.
I have had a couple of NOS 043 that were set all over the place...and I set them to the "correct" setting I knew worked right.
I would rather have a repair kit of new parts to do the job myself so I could tune the MPS to a engine with its own quirks.

I'm with you. The carb guys haven't weighed in. Would they take a new set of Webers and plunk them onto the car, and then never dial them in? I think not.

And either way, you really should have access to an AFR meter. I'm going to try and use a PLX Devices unit. Got it for Christmas. Haven't tried it yet... And inductance meters have come way down. I think I paid $40 for mine brand new.

Sorry to be uninformed, but what does this AFR do and how do you use it to tweak a DJet? Thanks, I am just wanting to learn how to get the most out of my setup.

Larouex

[Bleyseng]

Jim, tuning is the real issue with a home rebuild kit. The best part about a factory rebuild would be that it's a 5min install and you can trust that it's right.

Tuning to the known settings is pretty easy, the problem is most engines are slightly modified from stock these days. Close but tuning with a LM1 O2 setup gets you right there. New outta the box MPSs from Bosch would be set to their settings from what, 30 years ago for Brand New engines.
I have had a couple of NOS 043 that were set all over the place...and I set them to the "correct" setting I knew worked right.
I would rather have a repair kit of new parts to do the job myself so I could tune the MPS to a engine with its own quirks.

I'm with you. The carb guys haven't weighed in. Would they take a new set of Webers and plunk them onto the car, and then never dial them in? I think not.

And either way, you really should have access to an AFR meter. I'm going to try and use a PLX Devices unit. Got it for Christmas. Haven't tried it yet... And inductance meters have come way down. I think I paid $40 for mine brand new.

Sorry to be uninformed, but what does this AFR do and how do you use it to tweak a DJet? Thanks, I am just wanting to learn how to get the most out of my setup.

Larouex

First you weld a "bung" onto the exhaust so you can mount the O2 sensor.
Then you drive around at partload (2000-2500rpms) and record it onto a laptop.
Then a WOT run
Check your results and see what your AFR is varying conditions to see what your average AFR it. It should be between 13.7 and 14 to one at Part load.
WOT should be 12 to one to start and end at 13 to one at 5000 rpms.
Idle is set with the knob.