Suspension Advice of my 914-Sixer Options

[shoguneagle]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) Well, here goes on seeking advice and comments on another item I need to possibly change. I just ran my car around for the past two days and it seems I have built a perfect racing suspension which is not ver good for the road. At my age I would like an excellent handling road car. The suspension I have does not allow any movement in it and when I do hit the "frozen ice cracks in the asphalt" it does transmit the bump through out the car. I even put about 100# weight in the front to equalize and see if it would cause the suspension to have some movement. Boy, do I have an excellent race suspension.

What do I have????

The front consists of a completely rebuilt/new suspension components including rack and pinion, 21mm after market sway bar, 22mm torsion bars, koni inserts red set on light suspension, etc. The suspension I have just listed causes the front end to move when going over a rough surface and appears to move around on me.

The rear suspension consists of rebuilt/new components including 180# springs on adjustable perches, Koni Red adjustables set to lightest, etc.

The front and rear suspensions are mounted on Elephant Racing Bronze inserts with zert fittings, new hardware bolts, new ball joints, etc.

Where I need comments and information is regarding any possible changes involves the front torsion bars and the rear springs.. Any comments/advice regarding the rest of the suspension that may need changing would be appreciated.

I am thinking of changing the front suspension to 19mm stock originals to lighten the stiffness and possibly give more movement in the front end. The rear would be changed to 140# springs with the rest of the suspension remaining as built. I could possibly go to the 100# springs if deemed necessary.

I need to find out where I can source any parts needed such as the torsion bars and springs. I may have original 911 front stock torsion bars and 914 rear stock springs in my parts bin.

Do you think I should return everything back to original suspension???

Car is powered with 3.2 1987 Carrera Sixer with a "Doc Evil Built and Blessed" 901 transaxle.

Need advice/comments. What do you think????

Thanks,
Steve

[Eric_Shea]

I could not find what the setup was for the original Sixers but they are probably somewhere in the area of what has been suggested here.

Sorry for the multiple posts. Just began reading in earnest to get a little more detail on your wants and needs:

For the above question - 17.8mm torsion bars and rubber bushings on the front with no anti-sway. Factory sixes never came with anti-sway bars. They had a stock 914-4 torsion bar spring weight with 911 spline count on the bars. Why they didn't just use 914-4 arms is beyond me BUT, I believe they spec'd front ends complete as I've seen a factory video with the entire front end being bolted in at once. Seeing as how the -6 basically had a 911T front end, this may be why (still doesn't explain how and/or why the -6 received a 914.351 part number on the strut though. That said, I've always felt a anti-sway-bar is a "must" for a 914.

The rear had 100lb. springs vs. 85-90lb. on a 914-4.

Given your driving requirements in the very first post,

At my age I would like an excellent handling road car.

I generally recommend a stock anti-sway bar. The current problems I think you're having in order of importance are:

1. Torsion bars. It seems like you're on to this and the 18.8's (factory 911 19mm bars) should help. I would even "seriously" consider finding factory 17.8mm 914-6 bars for what you are desiring. Think about it, this is your spring rate for a street car. It really has nothing to do with making a street car faster... just bumpier.

2. Anti-Sway bar. Again, set what you have on full soft but you still may have issues here. The main objective of this piece is to transfer dynamics from one wheel to the other. What you are looking for in a street car is a balance between get rid of the "Chris*Craft" lean in the corners and pound my fillings out. I have that one year 18mm 930 bar on both my cars and I "love" them. On the 914 I use Tarretts RSR arms which actually have a couple more holes in the end over a factory RSR arm. Mine is set "next to the last". What many don't realize is sway-bars can contribute greatly to an uncomfortable ride. I almost put this as #1.

3. Bushings. Love the Elephants and have them on both my cars. After driving both the 911 and the 914 on Elephant bronze I would "strongly recommend" Elephant rubber bushings for a street car. There is "no mistaking" the fact that you are now missing that rubber cushion between the cars suspension and the chassis. Yes, the suspension components work freely and much more efficiently but, little things like freeze cracks, sewer covers and driveway aprons will now "announce" their arrival. So you're giving up that mm here or there in the flex of your suspension but, that's they way it was designed by the factory. That design lasted 30 plus years unchanged and, the stiff bushings are simply not a requirement in a street car... in fact, I'd go so far as to say (in your case) they are a detriment.

I ramble because I think a lot of people could learn from this. There are a few people here who race their 914's regularly. The rest will generally drive them and participate in an occasional autocross. Over 30 years of 914 ownership has taught me that you really can't stop the "bigger-is-better" mentality, you can only hope to educate them. The suspension on our 914's is truly amazing right out of the box. My only critique (as mentioned above) is the lack of a mandatory anti-sway bar. Every single car should have had a 15mm bar installed at the factory up front at least. Read the reviews from 1970. Your front suspension is nuts and bolts identical to an iconic Porsche 911R, 911RS, 930 with the exception of a spring rate developed specifically for our cars. Think about it, that's super-car status.

Bottom Line - A stock 914 suspension is very, very, very good right out of the box. Add a well balanced anti-sway bar and it's fantastic. Use that as a base line and ask yourself what will this new "widget" do to my ride:

Solid Bushings - This will eliminate fractional inches of suspension movement while forsaking ride quality. Is this wanted/needed? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

Anti-Sway Bar - This will eliminate body roll while forsaking a smoother ride (remember... there are multiple levels to choose from here from 12mm to 22mm. Factory was 15mm) I really think this is a "must have" item but at what level? Is going beyond the factory 15mm bar wanted/needed? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

Heavy Torsion Bars - These will give you a harsher ride on the street while giving you a more predictable ride in a full race/track situation. As above, there are many variations. That's one of the benefits of owning a Porsche. I can't think of one benefit for a street car. Put your normal Jane or Joe in a stock 914 and drive them down a city street and ask them what they think. 9x out of 10 you will hear the car is already fairly stiff. Is this wanted/needed? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

The cool thing is; we have options. You may want a hair more spring rate or anti-sway bar. You can pretty much tweak to your hearts content. I'll stick with my original suggestions but keep in mind, 1mm in torsion bar rigidity can be a big difference in ride quality. I'll reserve the fact that you may even want to go back to 17.8 and a smaller sway bar.