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> Making the type four rev higher
Trekkor
post Jun 10 2013, 04:55 PM
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I have a VW Bug race car with a type four motor.

I would like it to safely rev up to 6500-7000 rpms.

What is needed to accomplish this?

thanks

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DBCooper
post Jun 13 2013, 10:29 AM
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You said "we turned 322 3 mile laps in our 2012 24 hour race", which is an average of about 40 miles an hour. That's not real fast, so did you spend time in the pits? How much? A 40 mph average speed won't stress your engine, so I guess the real question is what's your real average speed, when racing, the speed you'd need to maintain for 24 hours?

Reason for the T1 suggestion was cost. All the performance parts you need are cheap in a T1, while the same T4 parts are expensive. The question about aircooled fours in endurance racing was because you're doing something really rare and difficult, so it's really cool. But it's so cool exactly because it's so hard. And since it's hard to make a T4 live that long it seems that your priority is probably longevity before power or RPM's. Or no? And IF that's the case (lots of "ifs" here) then that suggestion to go big and mild might be wiser than smaller and stressed.

Did you chop up the back of the car, or was it converted to upright cooling? If so what are you using? Is there a thread somewhere?

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worn
post Jun 13 2013, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE(DBCooper @ Jun 13 2013, 08:29 AM) *


Reason for the T1 suggestion was cost. All the performance parts you need are cheap in a T1, while the same T4 parts are expensive. The question about aircooled fours in endurance racing was because you're doing something really rare and difficult, so it's really cool. But it's so cool exactly because it's so hard. And since it's hard to make a T4 live that long it seems that your priority is probably longevity before power or RPM's.

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My short experience, with a ton of explorative reading, has led me to the conclusion that the 914 was designed for a six and given a 4. And that 4 was pushed to and then past its design limitations. To make power you end up heating the heads which had already been increased in size progressively. By the time they got to the 2.0, which was born of necessity and I am glad that they did, they had reached a point at which they had to move the red line on the temp gauge and sell a car where the oil pressure light came on at about 3 psi, with no stock gauge! They also sold them in general to the same kinds of people who buy Porsches now. If there were problems they would pay the dealer.

Not a rant about the 914, because it is a thoroughbred chassis. I just think that if you want the power that the chassis deserves you are going to have heat or you are going to have a six (and heat). I drove my 914-4 to work today and loved every meter travelled.

What I think I am saying is that for power, I am not sure that the type 4 engine is the best example out there. Maybe if you have to have air-cooled, but even then I suspect there is more capacity in the Type 1. What is the icon for having said the wrong thing?
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Posts in this topic
Trekkor   Making the type four rev higher   Jun 10 2013, 04:55 PM
ConeDodger   Extreme balance. Light driveline components. Ignor...   Jun 10 2013, 05:00 PM
timothy_nd28   heavy duty valve springs and chrome moly pushrods   Jun 10 2013, 05:02 PM
The Cabinetmaker   My 2056 has the raby valve train kit with stock sp...   Jun 10 2013, 05:13 PM
DBCooper   All kinds of drag racers spinning them faster than...   Jun 10 2013, 05:19 PM
ConeDodger   All kinds of drag racers spinning them faster tha...   Jun 10 2013, 05:27 PM
WLD419   Some might say the right combo :D , I would say ...   Jun 10 2013, 05:26 PM
Steve   Do they make a 3/4 cam for a type 4? 3/4 cam has a...   Jun 10 2013, 05:33 PM
DBCooper   Do they make a 3/4 cam for a type 4? 3/4 cam has ...   Jun 10 2013, 06:05 PM
yeahmag   A few key components: * Aftermarket rods * Caref...   Jun 10 2013, 06:11 PM
Trekkor   This will be for endurance road racing. I would li...   Jun 10 2013, 09:22 PM
mittelmotor   That looks like the Buttonwillow ChumpCar race. Yo...   Jun 10 2013, 11:52 PM
Trekkor   That looks like the Buttonwillow ChumpCar race. Y...   Jun 11 2013, 02:27 PM
messix   endurance racing? don't go for high rpm! t...   Jun 11 2013, 12:11 AM
Mark Henry   There are limitations to what a pushrod motor can ...   Jun 11 2013, 06:25 AM
rick 918-S   There are limitations to what a pushrod motor can...   Jun 11 2013, 07:32 AM
Racer Chris   My backup 1.8L race engine is set up for 6800 rpm ...   Jun 11 2013, 07:06 AM
WLD419   You should post this question over on the Type4 f...   Jun 11 2013, 08:29 AM
Trekkor   I think our current set-up made 124hp. Can't r...   Jun 11 2013, 02:20 PM
Trekkor   It's a pretty fun car! http://www.914worl...   Jun 11 2013, 10:13 PM
stugray   Is there a "rule of thumb" for con-rod...   Jun 11 2013, 10:24 PM
messix   weight... the longer rod will weigh more. the is...   Jun 11 2013, 10:42 PM
Trekkor   More fun: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_of...   Jun 11 2013, 11:04 PM
Trekkor   That's probably my biggest complaint with the ...   Jun 11 2013, 11:41 PM
Trekkor   Dual Webers on the motor, BTW. KT   Jun 11 2013, 11:42 PM
messix   "floating the valves is not good!!...   Jun 11 2013, 11:52 PM
stugray   I thought that the problem occurred at the oppos...   Jun 12 2013, 01:22 AM
messix   I thought that the problem occurred at the oppo...   Jun 12 2013, 01:27 PM
r_towle   You might want to consider a 915 tranny, or a prop...   Jun 12 2013, 09:37 AM
Mark Henry   You might want to consider a 915 tranny, or a pro...   Jun 12 2013, 10:11 AM
Trekkor   Yes, maybe a 901 tailshifter with a flipped ring a...   Jun 12 2013, 08:38 PM
brant   Yes, maybe a 901 tailshifter with a flipped ring ...   Jun 12 2013, 09:17 PM
Trekkor   you don't have to flip it if you use a 911 ...   Jun 12 2013, 10:01 PM
DBCooper   Just a general question, what's the history of...   Jun 12 2013, 09:16 PM
Trekkor   Just a general question, what's the history o...   Jun 12 2013, 10:00 PM
messix   Just a general question, what's the history o...   Jun 12 2013, 10:11 PM
aircooledtechguy   If I build a motor to rev higher these are some of...   Jun 12 2013, 11:13 PM
messix   and would you run it for 24hrs in race trim? only...   Jun 12 2013, 11:45 PM
DBCooper   You said "we turned 322 3 mile laps in our 20...   Jun 13 2013, 10:29 AM
worn   Reason for the T1 suggestion was cost. All the ...   Jun 13 2013, 10:45 AM
DBCooper   What I think I am saying is that for power, I am ...   Jun 13 2013, 03:04 PM
Trekkor   You said "we turned 322 3 mile laps in our 2...   Jun 13 2013, 01:23 PM
yeahmag   I would completely disagree from experience. My Ty...   Jun 13 2013, 10:54 AM
DBCooper   Well, the T4 IS a truck motor, so it makes sense t...   Jun 13 2013, 12:43 PM
Racer Chris   I averaged over 60 mph for 1000 miles the last tim...   Jun 13 2013, 01:23 PM
Trekkor   We missed our class win by two laps. We were doin...   Jun 13 2013, 05:12 PM
stugray   I drove my 914 back & forth from Oklahoma Ci...   Jun 13 2013, 05:28 PM
messix   wow really guys :stooges: ... you cant compare cru...   Jun 13 2013, 05:53 PM
DBCooper   That is SO cool. Well done. I don't know wha...   Jun 14 2013, 08:10 AM
sean_v8_914   you must manage the FORCE force = mass x accelera...   Jun 14 2013, 11:24 AM
sean_v8_914   lots of cool valve float videos on youtube   Jun 14 2013, 11:31 AM
Trekkor   better view of the duct work!: http://www.914...   Jun 14 2013, 12:37 PM
DBCooper   Wow, reinforced bumpers welded on, looks like disc...   Jun 14 2013, 01:22 PM
Trekkor   Let's see if i can find some shots of the vent...   Jun 14 2013, 01:42 PM
Trekkor   http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i944....   Jun 14 2013, 04:42 PM
sean_v8_914   so I had to look at all teh pics on thet link, of ...   Jun 15 2013, 10:08 AM
sean_v8_914   that breather box is qustom HDR. the electrical co...   Jun 15 2013, 10:13 AM
Trekkor   Exactly! KT   Jun 15 2013, 11:33 AM


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