Turbocharging a type 4 |
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Turbocharging a type 4 |
stownsen914 |
Oct 12 2016, 02:04 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 928 Joined: 3-October 06 From: Ossining, NY Member No.: 6,985 Region Association: None |
I have heard the conventional wisdom that "you can't turbocharge a type 4 successfully." Is it just difficult, or can it really not be done well? I'm tossing around the crazy idea of turbo'ing a type 4 for PCA club racing, to put in the chassis in my avatar. My 6 in its current configuration is not competitive, so I can put a bunch of money in that, or do something different. I like a challenge, so why wouldn't the following work?
- 1.8 or 2.0 type 4 as a base. I would keep displacement stock or close to it. - EFI for induction - Properly sized intercooler and huge oil cooler - A good aftermarket cooling fan - Would be dry sumped - I would work with a knowledgeable builder or shop to build the engine. I am not so familiar with type 4 race modifications, but presumably this would include reinforcing the bottom end, using Carrillo, Pauter, etc. rods - Obviously the heads would need to be reworked for flow and possibly reliability If I do the above, could a type 4 be built to withstand 15 psi of boost and make 350 hp reliably? Scott |
ThePaintedMan |
Oct 19 2016, 09:31 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,886 Joined: 6-September 11 From: St. Petersburg, FL Member No.: 13,527 Region Association: South East States |
I think for the amount of engineering involved and the very real possibility that a type 4 with that much boost on it may still be a grenade, I would consider another watercooled Porsche engine, as Mike suggested. What about a turbo 944 motor, or even a 928 V8? Those things can make some pretty healthy and reliable HP numbers without nearly as much $ or time as it would take to make the TiV work. All you need is a radiator and some water lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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HAM Inc |
Oct 19 2016, 09:40 AM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 846 Joined: 24-July 06 From: Watkinsville,GA Member No.: 6,499 Region Association: None |
I think for the amount of engineering involved and the very real possibility that a type 4 with that much boost on it may still be a grenade, I would consider another watercooled Porsche engine, as Mike suggested. What about a turbo 944 motor, or even a 928 V8? Those things can make some pretty healthy and reliable HP numbers without nearly as much $ or time as it would take to make the TiV work. All you need is a radiator and some water lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That makes more sense (to me) than a roadrace turbo T4. But I'd love to see a well engineered and deep wallet turbo t4 build for a roadrace car. I'd like to see how it went and what tech was developed along the way. Been plenty of turbo t4 street engines, but they don't see the abuse a track car does. |
Mueller |
Oct 19 2016, 09:50 AM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
I think for the amount of engineering involved and the very real possibility that a type 4 with that much boost on it may still be a grenade, I would consider another watercooled Porsche engine, as Mike suggested. What about a turbo 944 motor, or even a 928 V8? Those things can make some pretty healthy and reliable HP numbers without nearly as much $ or time as it would take to make the TiV work. All you need is a radiator and some water lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That makes more sense (to me) than a roadrace turbo T4. But I'd love to see a well engineered and deep wallet turbo t4 build for a roadrace car. I'd like to see how it went and what tech was developed along the way. Been plenty of turbo t4 street engines, but they don't see the abuse a track car does. Did Jake or you give up on the billet Type IV heads? Too expensive and small of a market I guess? |
HAM Inc |
Oct 19 2016, 11:34 AM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 846 Joined: 24-July 06 From: Watkinsville,GA Member No.: 6,499 Region Association: None |
I think for the amount of engineering involved and the very real possibility that a type 4 with that much boost on it may still be a grenade, I would consider another watercooled Porsche engine, as Mike suggested. What about a turbo 944 motor, or even a 928 V8? Those things can make some pretty healthy and reliable HP numbers without nearly as much $ or time as it would take to make the TiV work. All you need is a radiator and some water lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That makes more sense (to me) than a roadrace turbo T4. But I'd love to see a well engineered and deep wallet turbo t4 build for a roadrace car. I'd like to see how it went and what tech was developed along the way. Been plenty of turbo t4 street engines, but they don't see the abuse a track car does. Did Jake or you give up on the billet Type IV heads? Too expensive and small of a market I guess? Waaay too small a market for a high-end T4 billet head now. The new AMC castings are very nice and meet the needs of 99% of the marketable T4 applications. When we were doing that development the economy tanked and demand for high-end T4 engines shrank, but demand for modern Porsche engines took off. We saw the writing on the wall. The T4 head design - with its exhaust outlets positioned between pushrod tubes - presents some baked in application limitations that are a real challenge to overcome. The most practical way to get around them is to move to a T1 style exhaust arrangment, which the Engine Plus heads did very nicely. They were great heads, but they too suffered the market lmitations facing the T4. Last I heard they were NLA. If someone wants to build an engine that goes to that level, switching to a T1 based platform makes more sense. Plenty of Hi-Perf parts - from blocks to heads - already developed. Of course much of it is Chinese junk now, making it even crazier to try to develop a T4 configured billet head. |
Mueller |
Oct 19 2016, 11:48 AM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
Waaay too small a market for a high-end T4 billet head now. The new AMC castings are very nice and meet the needs of 99% of the marketable T4 applications. When we were doing that development the economy tanked and demand for high-end T4 engines shrank, but demand for modern Porsche engines took off. We saw the writing on the wall. The T4 head design - with its exhaust outlets positioned between pushrod tubes - presents some baked in application limitations that are a real challenge to overcome. The most practical way to get around them is to move to a T1 style exhaust arrangment, which the Engine Plus heads did very nicely. They were great heads, but they too suffered the market lmitations facing the T4. Last I heard they were NLA. If someone wants to build an engine that goes to that level, switching to a T1 based platform makes more sense. Plenty of Hi-Perf parts - from blocks to heads - already developed. Of course much of it is Chinese junk now, making it even crazier to try to develop a T4 configured billet head. Thanks for the reply. How funny, I did a search for those Engine Plus heads and came across a thread with Jake showing off his billet heads! http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.ph...97&start=30 So if someone was to redesign some heads for their own use you'd recommend going the Type I exhaust route? |
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