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> Racing question i have never heard of before, It actually exists and is banned from F1!
tazz9924
post Jan 8 2017, 02:51 PM
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So. I own a baja bug and a popular off road upgrade for it is a cutting/ turning brake. My question is why arnt these used in road racing as an alternative for left foot braking? this would direct braking force torwards the inside wheel(s) and may allow for faster and tighter cornering.

(Edit): I found that mclaren used a system similar to this in 97-98 in F1 and is a system currently employed in modern mclaren road cars. Instead of a grab handle it was a switchable 3rd pedal to the left of the brake pedal (they dont have clutches) Conservative estimates say it was good for .3 seconds a lap! It was banned from F1 on the grounds that it was a 4 wheel steering system. More info can be found here: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/...e-steer-mclarenAttached Image


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GregAmy
post Jan 9 2017, 08:16 AM
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The (somewhat) quick answer: rear wheel turning brakes are only used in conditions with low lateral grip: ice, sand, dirt, rallying, etc. Its intention is to generate excessive slip angle in the rear tires to get the car to rotate, to slide or "drift", without making the front tires slide. Once you get the vehicle sideways you can open the steering and use the forward grip and engine torque to drive the car toward the center of the corner radius (and thus go around the corner) instead of using tire lateral grip (that you don't have).

This technique in a high lateral grip situation would make the car slower. In this situation, far more energy is wasted in sliding across a high-grip surface than is gained by the technique.
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tazz9924   Racing question i have never heard of before   Jan 8 2017, 02:51 PM
jmill   They are already on many drift cars. However, dri...   Jan 8 2017, 03:01 PM
tazz9924   They are already on many drift cars. However, dr...   Jan 8 2017, 03:09 PM
stanthedog   Aren't they illegal for road use. I'd thin...   Jan 8 2017, 03:38 PM
Mueller   In real racing you want both hands on the wheel, w...   Jan 8 2017, 03:38 PM
Cracker   ...it is called "trail-braking" in road ...   Jan 8 2017, 03:40 PM
Mueller   So. I own a baja bug and a popular off road upgra...   Jan 8 2017, 03:42 PM
Mark Henry   For turning tight corners at slow speed. My Fiat ...   Jan 8 2017, 04:53 PM
jmill   They are already on many drift cars. However, d...   Jan 8 2017, 05:00 PM
6freak   [quote name='tazz9924' date='Jan 8 201...   Jan 8 2017, 06:55 PM
sixaddict   Rally cars use them on really tight turns ....in r...   Jan 8 2017, 07:14 PM
tazz9924   Rally cars use them on really tight turns ....in ...   Jan 8 2017, 11:08 PM
jmitro   :agree: not to mention it would be against the r...   Jan 8 2017, 07:32 PM
tazz9924   :agree: not to mention it would be against the ...   Jan 8 2017, 11:10 PM
raynekat   Easy answer....these work only on the rear wheels ...   Jan 9 2017, 12:49 AM
stugray   The only use this would have on a road racing car ...   Jan 9 2017, 07:58 AM
ThePaintedMan   This is the only road racing example that I know o...   Jan 9 2017, 08:16 AM
GregAmy   The (somewhat) quick answer: rear wheel turning br...   Jan 9 2017, 08:16 AM
Cracker   To piggy back on that excellent explanation - in t...   Jan 9 2017, 08:31 AM
6freak   To piggy back on that excellent explanation - in ...   Jan 9 2017, 09:26 AM
Cracker   Mike - It "could" include the throttle b...   Jan 9 2017, 09:34 AM
tazz9924   Mike - It "could" include the throttle ...   Jan 9 2017, 11:01 AM
Mueller   [quote name='Cracker' post='2442225' date='Jan 9 ...   Jan 9 2017, 11:50 AM
tazz9924   Hey it was just something i thought of searching ...   Jan 9 2017, 10:58 AM
ConeDodger   The spin would be epic at road race speeds... :bl...   Jan 9 2017, 08:46 AM
Cracker   The spin would be epic at road race speeds... :b...   Jan 9 2017, 08:59 AM
Cracker   Tazz - I didn't mean to imply the idea wasn...   Jan 9 2017, 12:03 PM
stugray   There is some confusion and incorrect explanation ...   Jan 9 2017, 01:48 PM
Cracker   I often trail brake very late, depending on many f...   Jan 9 2017, 01:59 PM
brant   fun.... we all have different interpretations Tr...   Jan 9 2017, 02:32 PM
Dave_Darling   subsequently the trail braking transfers some of ...   Jan 9 2017, 11:12 PM
6freak   Your rear tires are also below the CG, unless t...   Jan 10 2017, 09:35 AM
tazz9924   Your rear tires are also below the CG, unless ...   Jan 10 2017, 11:56 AM
6freak   as i thought i just couldnt explain it like you ...   Jan 9 2017, 04:22 PM
tazz9924   as i thought i just couldnt explain it like you...   Jan 9 2017, 08:11 PM
tazz9924   I was right! more info in first post and you c...   Feb 8 2017, 12:51 PM
6freak   I was right! more info in first post and you ...   Feb 8 2017, 03:33 PM
ThePaintedMan   I was right! more info in first post and you ...   Feb 8 2017, 03:58 PM
tazz9924   [quote name='tazz9924' post='2452685' date='Feb 8...   Feb 8 2017, 08:40 PM
rhodyguy   Where are you driving that you might want an EXTRA...   Feb 8 2017, 02:56 PM
JmuRiz   Engineering Explained talked a bit about this toda...   Feb 8 2017, 03:28 PM
stugray   Engineering Explained talked a bit about this tod...   Feb 8 2017, 05:19 PM


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