how much bar is to much bar? Options

[ottox914]

I 'll first describe how the '14 is set up, then what I'm thinking and why, then you guys take it from there: Front: 21mm front T bars, 19mm weltmeister sway bar, set about 1/4 in from full soft, koni oil (911) sport adjustables in shortened housings, usually run at 1/2 turn in from full soft. Allignment as much neg as I can get, which is about 1 1/2 per side, 1/8 total toe out, caster at high end of factory specs. Back: Koni gas sports, (914), run full soft, 175# springs, threaded adjusters, no rear sway bar, no toe and no neg camber. Koni competition bump stops all the way around. Stock 15 x 5.5 rims w/Azenis, going to kuhmo or hoosier for next season, on either factory rims or 6.0 panasports. Rack spacers up front. Lowered to about 2-2.5" of travel for front struts before hitting the bump stops, back end lowered to corner balance to 49/51 diagonals. Open diff. 2.0 motor, soon to be kitcarlson'd, kerry hunter header w/supertrapp, "custom" (home-made) cold air kit, basically a K & N mounted on some pvc on top of the throttle body that sits right under the engine lid mesh w/the rain tray out.

I like the way it handles, in specific, the throttle lift oversteer at higher speeds to rotate around a cone. The car will be DSP for next season. Don't like the body roll. I think from seeing photos there is too much.

Plan of attack? I have always thought getting spring rates right was the first step, then sort the F/R balance with the sway bars, and fine tune at the track with shocks and air pressures, in that order. Here's what I'm thinking- go to the 23mm front sway bar, adjustable drop links to make sure there is no pre-load, add the (?) 18mm rear adjustable bar. Increase both bars a similar amount to try to retain the front/rear balance, and hopefully lose some body roll in the deal. Maybe go back to the 150# springs sitting in the garage.

Use is auto x, no lapping or road course stuff. (yet)

So, how about it? Anyone been there/done that? Most of the folks I've talked to locally stay away from a rear bar. I like the F/R balance the car currently has, and know how to fine tune it w/shocks/tire pressures for the conditions of the day. When I have tried to tighten up on the front bar, it just seems to become a pushing machine, and with the shocks set other than noted, it rides like a dump truck. Just gotta get rid of some roll, or just get used to it. waddya all think?

[ottox914]

Thanks for the replies- some more info on the car and thoughts- Jospeh222- what did you find odd about the set up? As for going back to the 150's w/a rear bar, I didn't want to over-stiffen the back of the car, but from what has showed up in the thread, sounds like it might be hard to get too stiff w/the springs- this is a little worry for me, as I'd like a somewhat compliant ride to and from the events, which are usually 2+ hrs each way away from me. Why is it that everyone just goes bigger and bigger on the spring rates, and few go w/rear bars? What about that magic word, "balance"?

I think I've got the front bar nearly as stiff as I dare w/out more push. I do have a factory rear bar kicking around the parts bin I call a garage- how about that w/the 150's or 175's on the back, and just tighten up on the 19mm front, rather than spend $$$ on the 23? Reasonable or not?

As for chassis stiffness, I've added the Brad Mayeur rocker kits to both sides, and while there is no roll cage, its pretty impressive to jack it up and see no door gap changes, and this was a solid car to start with, no rust-o-ration project. A friend has the autopower full cage in his car, would it make THAT much of a difference?

I have a library of 914 articles, as many of us do, and refer back to a copy of "autocross" magazine, from about 1991, (currently grassroots motorsports) that porfiles David and Ellen Ferguson's 914-6, FP class, 2nd at the Nats that yr. Their set up at the time was 21mm T bars, 22mm sway up front, and in back an 18mm sway with 165 springs. Do you think this worked for them as they had- 1) more power, and 2) true slicks, not DOT tires.

Here in the middle of nowhere WI the driving season is pretty much over, but that means the wrenching season is just starting up... keep the ideas flowing. What setups are each of you using ?