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> 914-6 air conditioning, Advice on compressor choise
turboman
post Jul 3 2012, 07:56 AM
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Hi, I am in the process to install an original 914 VPC system in my 914-6.
Like all my projects, I work on a budget.
First I bought all the parts about 5 years ago, then I refurbished all parts, (professional cleaning, expansion valve) installed the condenser in the front trunk as designed, temporary installed the evaporator console under the dash, and start the preparation process for the compressor installation.
I want the installation to be as close as possible to a factory one.
For me, is not an option a compressor under the engine, a serpentine belt or similar. I prefer to work extra time, and reach a perfect end product.
I used a double pulley from a 74 911, in order to install the pulley and have space for the dual belts, I have to shave a bit the original engine support and the engine cover (see photo).
I fit a 2.2 or 2.4 bracket. So far no problems, the end result looks very nice
Now I need to choose the compressor.
The York is out of question, due to size and efficiency. My options are a Sanden, a Denso or a Panasonic. Any one fitted with a one groove pulley
Not being familiar with the air conditioner compressors, and the way you need to calculate cooling capacity vs cabin volume, I would like to ask help form all of you.
1. Which compressor will suit my needs the best?
2. Which compressor is the smallest one?
3. The best compromise?
I will keep all of you posted of the progress on the installation and the need or not of a firewall modification.
Thanks
Francisco


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horizontally-opposed
post Apr 20 2019, 05:05 PM
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Would love to hear updates from those working on these systems...

I toy with the idea from time to time. Not really needed here in the Bay Area, but might be fun to have to really increase usability...
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mepstein
post Apr 20 2019, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 20 2019, 07:05 PM) *

Would love to hear updates from those working on these systems...

I toy with the idea from time to time. Not really needed here in the Bay Area, but might be fun to have to really increase usability...


I just saw the McMark installed A/C in a 914-3.2 at Hershey. Owner said it worked well and it looked like a clean install. I thought Mark was going to make kits but then changed his mind.

We've (the shop I work at part time) installed a couple Classic retrofit electric a/c kits in 911's. I've talked to the owner about a 914-6 kit and they have a 914 in the shop to work from. It would work great in a 914 but I think it's low on the priority list for the company. He also has an uprated alternator to retrofit in engines smaller than 3.2 to handle the current needed for the electric compressor. It's $900 and his a/c kits are $4K so it's not for the faint of wallet.

At some point, if the 914 version isn't made, I will buy the 911 version and modify an airbox to work. Call me a wimp but once the heat and humidity get above xxx, I don't want to be in a non-a/c car.
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horizontally-opposed
post Apr 20 2019, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 04:59 PM) *


I just saw the McMark installed A/C in a 914-3.2 at Hershey. Owner said it worked well and it looked like a clean install. I thought Mark was going to make kits but then changed his mind.

We've (the shop I work at part time) installed a couple Classic retrofit electric a/c kits in 911's. I've talked to the owner about a 914-6 kit and they have a 914 in the shop to work from. It would work great in a 914 but I think it's low on the priority list for the company. He also has an uprated alternator to retrofit in engines smaller than 3.2 to handle the current needed for the electric compressor. It's $900 and his a/c kits are $4K so it's not for the faint of wallet.

At some point, if the 914 version isn't made, I will buy the 911 version and modify an airbox to work. Call me a wimp but once the heat and humidity get above xxx, I don't want to be in a non-a/c car.


^ Very interesting. Would love to see more of Mark's setup...curious why he abandoned the project, but suspect complexity or similar was a reason?

Truth is, weather is too often the determinant in whether I take my 914 out...and the car is pretty nice with the roof on and windows up. Will be adding Stoddard heater boxes at some point to get heat again, but the thought of A/C means long trips and summer use would be a lot more attractive. Would be curious about weight and complexity. Porsche got it down to 35~ pounds in the 987, but I am guessing that is a pipe dream in this case!


QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 20 2019, 05:11 PM) *

I would really love AC in my Six.....I just don't see it ever being made so it will never happen. Where we live it gets over 100 in the summer so having A/C would be a dream. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


When you get your car up and running, we gotta grab lunch. We think very, very similarly. And I sure am digging your current build... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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mepstein
post Apr 20 2019, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 20 2019, 10:10 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 04:59 PM) *


I just saw the McMark installed A/C in a 914-3.2 at Hershey. Owner said it worked well and it looked like a clean install. I thought Mark was going to make kits but then changed his mind.

We've (the shop I work at part time) installed a couple Classic retrofit electric a/c kits in 911's. I've talked to the owner about a 914-6 kit and they have a 914 in the shop to work from. It would work great in a 914 but I think it's low on the priority list for the company. He also has an uprated alternator to retrofit in engines smaller than 3.2 to handle the current needed for the electric compressor. It's $900 and his a/c kits are $4K so it's not for the faint of wallet.

At some point, if the 914 version isn't made, I will buy the 911 version and modify an airbox to work. Call me a wimp but once the heat and humidity get above xxx, I don't want to be in a non-a/c car.


^ Very interesting. Would love to see more of Mark's setup...curious why he abandoned the project, but suspect complexity or similar was a reason?

Truth is, weather is too often the determinant in whether I take my 914 out...and the car is pretty nice with the roof on and windows up. Will be adding Stoddard heater boxes at some point to get heat again, but the thought of A/C means long trips and summer use would be a lot more attractive. Would be curious about weight and complexity. Porsche got it down to 35~ pounds in the 987, but I am guessing that is a pipe dream in this case!


QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 20 2019, 05:11 PM) *

I would really love AC in my Six.....I just don't see it ever being made so it will never happen. Where we live it gets over 100 in the summer so having A/C would be a dream. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


When you get your car up and running, we gotta grab lunch. We think very, very similarly. And I sure am digging your current build... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

The electric a/c is 30lbs. I've talked to the owner about install and he suggested mounting the compressor under the trunk above the right axle and the condenser in the right rear fender, opposite the oil tank. So unlike a regular a/c install, much of the electric unit is hidden and pretty low in the car. The only sticking point is the custom blower box. I would have to fab one that would fit the 914 and then stuff the insides from the electric 911 unit into the box.

A/C is one of the main reasons I'm doing a Suby swap on another car. It's already hacked up from a previous h20 conversion so adding a/c won't really change much. I just want it to be a driver. Summer, rain, road salt, whatever.
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horizontally-opposed
post Apr 20 2019, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 07:42 PM) *


The electric a/c is 30lbs. I've talked to the owner about install and he suggested mounting the compressor under the trunk above the right axle and the condenser in the right rear fender, opposite the oil tank. So unlike a regular a/c install, much of the electric unit is hidden and pretty low in the car. The only sticking point is the custom blower box. I would have to fab one that would fit the 914 and then stuff the insides from the electric 911 unit into the box.

A/C is one of the main reasons I'm doing a Suby swap on another car. It's already hacked up from a previous h20 conversion so adding a/c won't really change much. I just want it to be a driver. Summer, rain, road salt, whatever.


^ Does this system also do heat? Cost for the parts? 30lbs mounted as you suggest would be pretty great, even if you have to add pounds for lines and the airbox mods.

Given the price of Stoddard heater boxes, or other alternatives, this may become pretty interesting...particularly if it's robust. Would be awesome to keep the weight low, to be able to stick with headers, and to have A/C without seeing it when you pop the lid, too...

Would be tempting to offset the 30lbs with a lightweight battery, but I've had several friends suggest against that with a carbureted flat six. Will say my car starts right up after sitting, but hot starts can be tricky.
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mepstein
post Apr 20 2019, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 20 2019, 10:55 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 07:42 PM) *


The electric a/c is 30lbs. I've talked to the owner about install and he suggested mounting the compressor under the trunk above the right axle and the condenser in the right rear fender, opposite the oil tank. So unlike a regular a/c install, much of the electric unit is hidden and pretty low in the car. The only sticking point is the custom blower box. I would have to fab one that would fit the 914 and then stuff the insides from the electric 911 unit into the box.

A/C is one of the main reasons I'm doing a Suby swap on another car. It's already hacked up from a previous h20 conversion so adding a/c won't really change much. I just want it to be a driver. Summer, rain, road salt, whatever.


^ Does this system also do heat? Cost for the parts? 30lbs mounted as you suggest would be pretty great, even if you have to add pounds for lines and the airbox mods.

Given the price of Stoddard heater boxes, or other alternatives, this may become pretty interesting...particularly if it's robust. Would be awesome to keep the weight low, to be able to stick with headers, and to have A/C without seeing it when you pop the lid, too...

Would be tempting to offset the 30lbs with a lightweight battery, but I've had several friends suggest against that with a carbureted flat six. Will say my car starts right up after sitting, but hot starts can be tricky.

30# is all inclusive. It's really a nice system. Heat is supposed to be next on the menu since they have an alternator capable of putting out the required current. It's used on electric cars now and our cars have very little cabin volume. Right now the complete a/c system is almost $5K if you include the alternator. All the 911's we've installed into are $100K + cars so the cost ration is different than your average 914-6 conversion.

I think you want to keep a pretty good size battery in the car if you are using electric a/c. But I'm certainly no expert.

But I don't like being uncomfortable in my car so adding 2-3 months to the driving season is a huge bonus to me.
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horizontally-opposed
post Apr 20 2019, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 08:25 PM) *

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 20 2019, 10:55 PM) *


^ Does this system also do heat? Cost for the parts? 30lbs mounted as you suggest would be pretty great, even if you have to add pounds for lines and the airbox mods.

Given the price of Stoddard heater boxes, or other alternatives, this may become pretty interesting...particularly if it's robust. Would be awesome to keep the weight low, to be able to stick with headers, and to have A/C without seeing it when you pop the lid, too...

Would be tempting to offset the 30lbs with a lightweight battery, but I've had several friends suggest against that with a carbureted flat six. Will say my car starts right up after sitting, but hot starts can be tricky.

30# is all inclusive. It's really a nice system. Heat is supposed to be next on the menu since they have an alternator capable of putting out the required current. It's used on electric cars now and our cars have very little cabin volume. Right now the complete a/c system is almost $5K if you include the alternator. All the 911's we've installed into are $100K + cars so the cost ration is different than your average 914-6 conversion.

I think you want to keep a pretty good size battery in the car if you are using electric a/c. But I'm certainly no expert.

But I don't like being uncomfortable in my car so adding 2-3 months to the driving season is a huge bonus to me.


$5k~ is no small cost...but...last I priced heat exchangers they were, what, $2500-3000 and you still need other stuff. And don't have A/C, which would be wonderful in a 914. An extra $2500-3000 for both would be a no-brainer in my view. Might have to save up, but just became a LOT less interested in spending the money on heat exchangers. Thanks of the info!
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mepstein
post Apr 20 2019, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 21 2019, 12:06 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Apr 20 2019, 08:25 PM) *

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Apr 20 2019, 10:55 PM) *


^ Does this system also do heat? Cost for the parts? 30lbs mounted as you suggest would be pretty great, even if you have to add pounds for lines and the airbox mods.

Given the price of Stoddard heater boxes, or other alternatives, this may become pretty interesting...particularly if it's robust. Would be awesome to keep the weight low, to be able to stick with headers, and to have A/C without seeing it when you pop the lid, too...

Would be tempting to offset the 30lbs with a lightweight battery, but I've had several friends suggest against that with a carbureted flat six. Will say my car starts right up after sitting, but hot starts can be tricky.

30# is all inclusive. It's really a nice system. Heat is supposed to be next on the menu since they have an alternator capable of putting out the required current. It's used on electric cars now and our cars have very little cabin volume. Right now the complete a/c system is almost $5K if you include the alternator. All the 911's we've installed into are $100K + cars so the cost ration is different than your average 914-6 conversion.

I think you want to keep a pretty good size battery in the car if you are using electric a/c. But I'm certainly no expert.

But I don't like being uncomfortable in my car so adding 2-3 months to the driving season is a huge bonus to me.


$5k~ is no small cost...but...last I priced heat exchangers they were, what, $2500-3000 and you still need other stuff. And don't have A/C, which would be wonderful in a 914. An extra $2500-3000 for both would be a no-brainer in my view. Might have to save up, but just became a LOT less interested in spending the money on heat exchangers. Thanks of the info!

The electric heat is supposed to be in the works but isn't yet for sale. Good heat exchangers aren't cheap but they are at least a bolt on item. The electric heat is a full install job. Nice but a project for sure. If you want heat, I would buy Rick's set for $300, ask him to send them to Ben, Pay Ben the $6-800 to fix (just guessing). Run them until you don't need them and then sell for $1K down the road.

If you end up doing this, I'll send you some restored flapper boxes for a back issue of your mag.
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Posts in this topic
turboman   914-6 air conditioning   Jul 3 2012, 07:56 AM
JawjaPorsche   I thought it did not get hot enough in France to n...   Jul 3 2012, 09:50 AM
Al Meredith   George Hussey at Auto Atlanta has Peter Greg's...   Jul 3 2012, 09:57 AM
mepstein   George Hussey at Auto Atlanta has Peter Greg...   Jul 3 2012, 10:11 AM
racerbvd   George Hussey at Auto Atlanta has Peter Greg...   Aug 1 2013, 08:23 PM
9146986   Hopefully Clay Perrine will chime in here. He...   Jul 3 2012, 01:06 PM
mepstein   Hopefully Clay Perrine will chime in here. He...   Jul 3 2012, 01:17 PM
veltror   Hello, talk to michale at mittelmotor, they have...   Jul 3 2012, 01:19 PM
Larry Hubby   I used a Sanden 505 compressor because it was the ...   Jul 3 2012, 09:47 PM
rgalla9146   I used a Sanden 505 compressor because it was the...   Jul 4 2012, 12:16 PM
ClayPerrine   I actually solved the AC bracket problem. When I b...   Jul 4 2012, 11:54 AM
GeorgeRud   I don't think the layshaft arrangement would w...   Jul 4 2012, 12:49 PM
ThePaintedMan   I always wondered if there would be a way to driv...   Jul 5 2012, 07:12 AM
Larry Hubby   The other accessory drive on my engine is for powe...   Jul 5 2012, 12:33 AM
turboman   Hi, thanks to all of you that share your ideas wit...   Jul 5 2012, 07:54 AM
veltror   Hi, thanks to all of you that share your ideas wi...   Jul 7 2012, 03:13 AM
pcar916   On running an axle pulley as a power take-off. It...   Jul 5 2012, 08:08 AM
ClayPerrine   an RV / AC box on the roof!? Wouldn't t...   Jul 5 2012, 01:21 PM
pcar916   And keep an eye on your steering wheel. Hey...   Jul 5 2012, 02:05 PM
turboman   As I mentioned I got in contact with Michael at Mi...   Jul 7 2012, 02:36 AM
turboman   Mikael used a DELPHI SP10 compressor.   Jul 7 2012, 02:37 AM
turboman   Look at the modification on the engine support and...   Jul 7 2012, 02:41 AM
patssle   Has anybody researched electric compressors? That ...   Jul 7 2012, 09:34 AM
david63   Would like to follow up on the Mittelmotor bracket...   Aug 1 2013, 07:46 PM
bcheney   That Mittlemotor set up looks first class. The bra...   Aug 1 2013, 08:09 PM
david63   I understand no factory AC only dealer installs an...   Aug 1 2013, 09:49 PM
Cairo94507   Why can't we go with one of the small-ish elec...   Aug 3 2013, 07:44 AM
GeorgeRud   As the cabin is fairly small in a 914, the interio...   Aug 3 2013, 08:45 AM
horizontally-opposed   Would love to hear updates from those working on t...   Apr 20 2019, 05:05 PM
mepstein   Would love to hear updates from those working on ...   Apr 20 2019, 05:59 PM
horizontally-opposed   I just saw the McMark installed A/C in a 914-3.2...   Apr 20 2019, 08:10 PM
mepstein   I just saw the McMark installed A/C in a 914-3....   Apr 20 2019, 08:42 PM
horizontally-opposed   The electric a/c is 30lbs. I've talked to th...   Apr 20 2019, 08:55 PM
mepstein   The electric a/c is 30lbs. I've talked to t...   Apr 20 2019, 09:25 PM
horizontally-opposed   ^ Does this system also do heat? Cost for the p...   Apr 20 2019, 10:06 PM
mepstein   [quote name='mepstein' post='2707269' date='Apr 2...   Apr 20 2019, 10:22 PM
Cairo94507   I would really love AC in my Six.....I just don...   Apr 20 2019, 06:11 PM
Steve   I bought an electric compressor for under $10...   Apr 21 2019, 07:49 AM
mepstein   I bought an electric compressor for under $1...   Apr 21 2019, 09:16 AM
horizontally-opposed   Well I sure would like to see what our doing. If ...   Apr 21 2019, 09:32 AM
rgalla9146   This is the ultimate AC compressor install....at l...   Apr 21 2019, 08:59 AM
76-914   @Steve Give me a holler when you get ready to plu...   Apr 21 2019, 09:08 AM
Steve   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...   Apr 21 2019, 09:33 AM
76-914   [quote name='76-914' post='2707379' date='Ap...   Apr 21 2019, 09:55 AM
76-914   [quote name='mepstein' post='2707222' date='Apr ...   Apr 21 2019, 09:52 AM
mepstein   [quote name='mepstein' post='2707263' date='Apr 2...   Apr 21 2019, 10:12 AM
Dave_Darling   I wonder how many reading this will get understan...   Apr 21 2019, 12:48 PM
horizontally-opposed   I wonder how many reading this will get understa...   Apr 21 2019, 10:02 AM
swalshaw   VPC A/C unit adapted to 914-6...38 degrees at the ...   May 1 2019, 04:59 PM
914forme   @[url=http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showu...   Aug 9 2020, 06:17 AM


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