Gotta love the internet, Facebook group rant Options

[IronHillRestorations]

The first time we had a Renegade Festival in Hot Springs (2nd mid west event), I lucked up and got a tech rep from BG Petroleum Products to give us a tech session. BG (was Wynn's Spitfire) makes fuel and oil additives. Their fuel additive is very effective for helping remove excess carbon build up. This is especially a problem in Japanese cars, or at least it was 20 years ago. He had quite a bit of technical data and, was there for a Toyota, or Honda tech summit of sorts. I saw him getting stuff out of the truck with a big BG on the side and started asking questions, and he graciously agreed to give us a tech session.

The guy did a cool "Mr. Science" kind of demonstration showing the difference between regular and premium gasoline. The demo showed that regular gas burns faster and cleaner than premium. He put a small eye dropper of each fuel on their own white Corell saucer. The regular burned without a lot of smoke and left a little residue. The premium burned slower, made noticeably more waxy like smoke, and left much more residue on the plate. Part of the point is to demonstrate that gasoline octane is the opposite of what most people think, "high test" or "the good stuff" is less volatile and has more additives. High octane fuel is the same fuel as regular, but with an additive package to lower the volatility, raising the octane for higher compression engines. He went on to say that you should use whatever your auto manufacturer recommends, and if no solid recommendation the general rule of thumb is to use the lowest octane you can, without getting pinging, or pre-ignition. Using high octane fuel in an engine that doesn't require it, can result in more unburned fuel, that can cause carbon build up in the combustion chamber, raising compression, and thereby requiring you to use a higher octane fuel that adds to the problem. Make sense? Are you tracking with me?

Most all of the guys there had questions, as well as their minds changed about the best fuel to use, in any car.

Someone posted on one of the 914 FB groups asking "what octane fuel should I use". My reply was based on my own experience, but mostly on the info from the BG rep: "Unless the mfr or engine builder says otherwise, you should run the lowest octane you can as long as you don't get pinging, or run on. Octane additives typically translate into carbon build up in the combustion chambers." Good grief, you'd have thought I said there's no Santa Claus, or our 914 is just a VW.

I've been around these cars for a while, and cringe whenever I get called an "expert" or "guru". Part of the great thing about our internet 914 community is we get to share insight and experiences both helpful and otherwise. Most everyone of us that's been elbows deep in a project has something good to share, even if it's "man I really messed up" But some people have to tell you how wrong you are, even if you aren't far off the mark, I don't get it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

There is no Santa Claus?

1) Facts don't often change peoples opinions. Lots of psychological studies on this. Sad but true.
2) We live in an age where even "experts" with the facts, can be shouted down by the majority (or social media mob).
3) Marketing from petroleum companies has convinced many that "premium" is better. How could it not be . . . it's Premium.

Brondo . . it's what plants crave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

You did what you can do. Wind em' up and then let it go.

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

There is no Santa Claus?

1) Facts don't often change peoples opinions. Lots of psychological studies on this. Sad but true.
2) We live in an age where even "experts" with the facts, can be shouted down by the majority (or social media mob).
3) Marketing from petroleum companies has convinced many that "premium" is better. How could it not be . . . it's Premium.

Brondo . . it's what plants crave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

You did what you can do. Wind em' up and then let it go.

Well put. Hard to believe the octane thing is still debated today, but we are indeed living in an idiocracy. I think I first read about what octane really does in the OLD VW-Porsche mag back in the early 80s. I've always run the lowest octane my car is designed for. I was bummed a few years ago when our Regular gasoline in this region suddenly jumped from the 85 octane appropriate for our high altitude up to 87 - the same as "low lander" fuel.

The petroleum industry would have us believe that high octane is like rocket fuel. Maybe those who buy the hype should try running a tank of actual rocket fuel through their engine and see how it works (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[jd74914]

Well put. Hard to believe the octane thing is still debated today, but we are indeed living in an idiocracy. I think I first read about what octane really does in the OLD VW-Porsche mag back in the early 80s. I've always run the lowest octane my car is designed for. I was bummed a few years ago when our Regular gasoline in this region suddenly jumped from the 85 octane appropriate for our high altitude up to 87 - the same as "low lander" fuel.

The petroleum industry would have us believe that high octane is like rocket fuel. Maybe those who buy the hype should try running a tank of actual rocket fuel through their engine and see how it works (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Its funny how people are about gasoline. Especially the misunderstanding that higher octane fuels are less thermally reactive (higher activation energies) which does not bode well for full burning.

I'm finishing my PhD; having spent the last 5 years studying combustion full-time and the prior decade part time. Much of the time looking at fuel effects, though usually for jet engines. People ask me all of the time when they find out what I do and then still argue with me about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Interestingly, any liquid rocket fuels which use an oxygen oxidizer would probably work in a T4. That's really only kerosene and liquid hydrogen, but still... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Superhawk996]

I'm finishing my PhD; having spent the last 5 years studying combustion full-time and the prior decade part time.

Ha! You’re a better man than I. I took a undergrad course on combustion. 1st day was cool. The professor was talking about fires, explosions, and engine combustion. The second day he started writing chemical formulas that ran the width of the calk board. 3rd day I dropped that class and added a vehicle dynamics class! Much better for me!

[jd74914]

Ha! You’re a better man than I. I took a undergrad course on combustion. 1st day was cool. The professor was talking about fires, explosions, and engine combustion. The second day he started writing chemical formulas that ran the width of the calk board. 3rd day I dropped that class and added a vehicle dynamics class! Much better for me!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yep, that is how it goes. I'm really more a chemical/systems engineer wrapped in a ME degree so those dynamics classes sail right over my head. All of that geometry was killer, somehow I have a better physical feel for chemical reactions and heat transfer. Wish we had been able to take VD classes during my undergrad though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)