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> threw another #3 rod, how to prevent this from happening again.
crash914
post Oct 29 2019, 03:17 PM
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So blew up my #3 rod. wondering what caused this. lack of oil, due to rpm? poor return? oil pump sucking air?

last time it was #2 rod. I really don't want to live with this again.

Motor specs,
Dual oil coolers with full flow plumbing
102 bore by 80mm stroke
long rods,
ham heads and valve train.
Running to 6800 rpm
g loads to 1.5
windage tray modified at pushrod tubes for oil flow
tuna can with 1/2 extra oil

Pics of horror below. First are this failure, then old failure.
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HAM Inc
post Nov 4 2019, 06:52 PM
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Herb are you running an accusump?

I'm of the opinion that an AX car doesn't need a dry sump system. A good tuna can and some mods to the windage tray are a big help.

Blocking the head vents will help keep oil from accumulating in the valve covers. That's a quart and half or more right there.

There are a bunch of little mods that can be done to improve the wet-sump function.

Properly engineering a dry-sump system is more complicated than just adding a dry sump tank and the plumbing. This is especially true if you are using a two stage pump, like the CB, which is a simple plug and play pump and adequate if proper prep is made, but not if you don't as the scavenge stage is not substantially larger than the pressure stage.

The mistake a lot of people make (I made it too) is to think that by adding the tank you can give short thrift to the scavenge aspect of the case prep. The reality is, you still have to prep the scavenge capabilities the same as if you were running a wet-sump system.

If you don't, when you corner and oil moves away from the pick-up you stop pumping oil out of the engine, but you don't stop pumping oil into the engine. This extra oil wraps around the crank and sloshes around in the case. With every significant corner you end up transferring oil from the tank into the crankcase.

At best this condition just robs power, but at worst it foams the oil so badly that even baffles in the tank can't de-aerate the oil fast enough. And if you vent the crankcase directly into a breather can and bypass the tank the oil that transfers from the tank to the crankcase will transfer out to the breather can.

The case mods I made to our dry-sump engines radically reduced the case-sump capacity with expoxied in place panels. The panels were arranged to direct oil to the pick-up which was down in my home made tuna can.

I also removed the goofy stud that runs through the pick up and cut off the restriction where the o-ring fits into the case. I welded a bung to the pick-up and sealed it to the case with a bead of silicon. The pick-up was secured to the bottom of the case with a bolt that went through from the bottom.

The stock by-pass circuit was sealed off with epoxy and an external regulator put in line.

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Posts in this topic
crash914   threw another #3 rod   Oct 29 2019, 03:17 PM
Chi-town   What kind of rod is that? Looks aftermarket? Odd ...   Oct 29 2019, 04:38 PM
wndsrfr   With the stroker crank, do a really thorough inspe...   Oct 29 2019, 07:31 PM
HAM Inc   Man that sucks! I think the rod bearing seized...   Oct 29 2019, 04:57 PM
crash914   I did get some warning (that I ignored) running h...   Oct 29 2019, 06:14 PM
HAM Inc   I did get some warning (that I ignored) running ...   Oct 30 2019, 07:35 PM
Superhawk996   Not trying to be a jackass . . . but sometimes i...   Oct 29 2019, 06:28 PM
Superhawk996   On a more constructive note. Play with this cen...   Oct 29 2019, 07:12 PM
Chris914n6   I can't think of a motor with nearly a 4...   Oct 29 2019, 11:14 PM
rick 918-S   I can't think of a motor with nearly a 4...   Nov 1 2019, 06:49 AM
GregAmy   :agree: check your connecting rod ratio to assi...   Nov 1 2019, 07:00 AM
falcor75   Pushing an engine with low oil pressure and knocki...   Oct 29 2019, 11:46 PM
crash914   I accept the responsibility for the failure. No ne...   Oct 30 2019, 10:53 AM
jd74914   I accept the responsibility for the failure. No n...   Oct 30 2019, 12:28 PM
ClayPerrine   I accept the responsibility for the failure. No n...   Oct 30 2019, 12:59 PM
mepstein   Regarding bearings, I’m curious why 6800 is hig...   Oct 30 2019, 11:33 AM
crash914   Exactly what I thought also. That the valve train...   Oct 30 2019, 11:50 AM
johnhora   Herb.. 20 hours is pretty good for MTTF were both...   Oct 30 2019, 11:50 AM
crash914   I will know more after the post. Engine is ready ...   Oct 30 2019, 12:40 PM
sixnotfour   Clay that's a 66x95 2.8....76 911 66x90 2.5+....   Oct 30 2019, 01:55 PM
ClayPerrine   Clay that's a 66x95 2.8....76 911 66x90 2.5+...   Oct 30 2019, 01:56 PM
sixnotfour   All I Know is; Type Four Sale :idea: :lol4: :dr...   Oct 30 2019, 02:01 PM
crash914   oil temp was elevated due to the rod bearing failu...   Oct 30 2019, 07:45 PM
jd74914   Thinking out loud here...Why are you running high ...   Oct 30 2019, 08:16 PM
yeahmag   I had to rebuild two motors before switching to a ...   Oct 30 2019, 09:30 PM
crash914   actually my CR is higher, more like 10:1. I hate ...   Oct 31 2019, 05:18 AM
HAM Inc   Don't vent the heads. Oil pools in vented T4 h...   Oct 31 2019, 06:21 AM
VaccaRabite   Don't vent the heads. Oil pools in vented T4 ...   Oct 31 2019, 09:57 AM
crash914   Good read. Thanks Len. For things to note, I did ...   Oct 31 2019, 08:29 AM
HAM Inc   Good read. Thanks Len. For things to note, I did...   Oct 31 2019, 03:56 PM
yeahmag   I employed Lens and Jakes work on the current moto...   Oct 31 2019, 08:43 AM
crash914   Len, just so I am clear, plug the head vents, don...   Oct 31 2019, 03:59 PM
HAM Inc   Len, just so I am clear, plug the head vents, don...   Oct 31 2019, 05:02 PM
GregAmy   Totally taking this off-topic a bit further...last...   Oct 31 2019, 04:10 PM
HAM Inc   Totally taking this off-topic a bit further...las...   Oct 31 2019, 05:20 PM
GregAmy   Greg you don't need anymore oil incidents...   Oct 31 2019, 05:39 PM
HAM Inc   [quote name='HAM Inc' post='2758607' date='Oct 31...   Oct 31 2019, 06:20 PM
GregAmy   The NOLA "Jackie Stewart" commentary is ...   Nov 1 2019, 05:08 AM
HAM Inc   The NOLA "Jackie Stewart" commentary is...   Nov 1 2019, 07:35 PM
Superhawk996   I would spend in the neighborhood of a 100 hours...   Nov 2 2019, 01:53 PM
cuddy_k   Curious...could unbalanced components accelerate t...   Oct 31 2019, 04:10 PM
yeahmag   Greg, Just make sure that you increase the chimne...   Oct 31 2019, 05:23 PM
GregAmy   Just make sure that you increase the chimney vent ...   Oct 31 2019, 05:42 PM
crash914   I did run it to failure. Before this last event t...   Nov 1 2019, 07:14 AM
Mark Henry   To me 6800 rpm is really pushing the limits of a s...   Nov 1 2019, 12:46 PM
crash914   Thanks Mark, I was hoping to get your insite. Try ...   Nov 1 2019, 01:38 PM
dirk2056   When I had my heads reworked the machine shop clos...   Nov 1 2019, 02:23 PM
crash914   It sounds like it was a good idea.   Nov 1 2019, 02:41 PM
GregAmy   Dat's purdy work up there...if you're bore...   Nov 3 2019, 06:15 AM
HAM Inc   Colin Chapman was a genius. He would have gun dril...   Nov 3 2019, 08:50 AM
type2man   One thing no one else has asked is how were the ot...   Nov 3 2019, 12:21 PM
crash914   Engine is out, I won't have a chance to split ...   Nov 3 2019, 07:53 PM
HAM Inc   Herb, based on the picture of your crank I'd b...   Nov 4 2019, 07:10 AM
GregAmy   FWIW, the prior owner of my car kept losing rod be...   Nov 4 2019, 07:29 AM
crash914   Oil starvation makes sense. More to come. The que...   Nov 4 2019, 07:34 AM
GregAmy   The question will be how to address it without bre...   Nov 4 2019, 12:29 PM
HAM Inc   Herb are you running an accusump? I'm of the...   Nov 4 2019, 06:52 PM
GregAmy   Nice, Len! I, too, have been thinking about t...   Nov 4 2019, 07:08 PM
HAM Inc   The CB pump is okay, but it has an internal cross ...   Nov 4 2019, 07:33 PM
HAM Inc   Some more pics. Opening the scavenge port in the c...   Nov 4 2019, 07:46 PM
Superhawk996   :rotfl: Laughing at all the work that that goes ...   Nov 4 2019, 07:53 PM
GregAmy   I'm amazed at the work that went into this dev...   Nov 4 2019, 08:25 PM
HAM Inc   I'm amazed at the work that went into this de...   Nov 5 2019, 07:20 AM
crash914   I do have and run a tuna can. I do not have an acc...   Nov 4 2019, 09:18 PM
Superhawk996   Don't think I will use a 80mm crank though. ...   Nov 5 2019, 05:55 AM
crash914   But what a fun motor! Light up the tires whene...   Nov 5 2019, 06:31 AM
Superhawk996   But what a fun motor! Light up the tires when...   Nov 5 2019, 06:27 PM
crash914   The tires I light up are 225 45 15 Hoosier A7...   Nov 5 2019, 07:05 PM
crash914   Motor is disassembled. See below for some picture...   Nov 10 2019, 03:43 PM
crash914   A couple more pictures.   Nov 10 2019, 03:45 PM
crash914   case GA000277 is history..   Nov 10 2019, 03:46 PM
VaccaRabite   I have a 2L case you are welcome to. Zach   Nov 12 2019, 08:41 AM
crash914   Thanks Zach! I might take you up on that offe...   Nov 12 2019, 08:45 AM


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