Why Some Cars Don't Survive, I Can't Find The Original Post Options

[windforfun]

Porsche has always used the highest quality materials. Also, the 914 design was in a class by itself. The British & Italian cars in a similar price range were really pieces of junk (no offense intended), but they were. Brand new Jags at the dealership would have drip pans under them. They may have been faster, but they haven't stood the test of time. This is where material science & reliability statistics have come into play. The Japanese auto industry have the statistician Deming, who trained Taguchi at the end of WWII, to thank for their success. We sent Deming over to Japan at the end of WWII to help them get their shit together. I took many statistics & probability theory courses in college & grad school. One such course was taught by Prof. Bonus who used to work on the reliability of Cadillac engines. I would typically attend his classes while tripping on LSD. His course was lots of fun. I think my final grade was a B. FYI. Cheers.

[gereed75]

As an ex Navy helo driver, don’t get me started. Let’s just say lots of moving parts flying in close formation, all of which have to keep working or you are in deep doodoo

Later involved in making parts in the aerospace supply chain with a descent familiarity with Boeing, Rockwell, McD, gE, Pratt Whitney, Airbus and others. Got to watch first hand the disassembly of that industry and deconstruction/adaptation of their disparate quality programs as they transitioned from “makers” to “assemblers”. All in all an interesting look into what was once the incredible manufacturing might of America.

With the experience of all our members here might be an interesting topic for discussion in the sandbox.

In the mean time, my take on cars was:

American best mass produced quality with cost and sales and volume the over riding drivers

Italian elegant engineering, worst materials

British just quirky, one step above cottage industry

Japanese very fast learners driven by high standards of design and engineering and materials

German really good engineering and the absolute best materials. Hard combo to beat

I think what you always have to consider is the volume of the market that these industries were serving at the time ( I assume we are talking 70’s 914 contemporary era)

[914_teener]

As an ex Navy helo driver, don’t get me started. Let’s just say lots of moving parts flying in close formation, all of which have to keep working or you are in deep doodoo

Later involved in making parts in the aerospace supply chain with a descent familiarity with Boeing, Rockwell, McD, gE, Pratt Whitney, Airbus and others. Got to watch first hand the disassembly of that industry and deconstruction/adaptation of their disparate quality programs as they transitioned from “makers” to “assemblers”. All in all an interesting look into what was once the incredible manufacturing might of America.

With the experience of all our members here might be an interesting topic for discussion in the sandbox.

In the mean time, my take on cars was:

American best mass produced quality with cost and sales and volume the over riding drivers

Italian best engineering, worst materials

British just quirky, one step above cottage industry

Japanese driven by high standards of design and engineering and materials

German really good engineering and the absolute best materials. Hard combo to beat

The French don't even make the list..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

The French don't even make the list..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

The French had some really excellent engineering! But it was very much marching to its own drummer. Plus they tended to make things "interesting" enough that it was difficult to make a profit. Rumor has it that they lost money on every DS built up until the 70s or so, but nobody could tell because their finances were so wacky.

But drive a properly-maintained DS or a 2CV on bad roads and then tell me their engineering is crap!

SAABs were very cool. I'd like to pick up an old one, probably one of the V4-powered ones because I don't really want to deal with a 2-stroke motor. Again, quirky, but well-engineered.


I don't have the time to talk about my experience in aerospace. But I started at NASA in 1987 and was there through about 2010. Some cool stuff, mostly on the first A ("Aeronautics") rather than the S ("Space"). Harriers are cool and I'm good at crashing them...

--DD

[914_teener]

The French don't even make the list..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

The French had some really excellent engineering! But it was very much marching to its own drummer. Plus they tended to make things "interesting" enough that it was difficult to make a profit. Rumor has it that they lost money on every DS built up until the 70s or so, but nobody could tell because their finances were so wacky.

But drive a properly-maintained DS or a 2CV on bad roads and then tell me their engineering is crap!

SAABs were very cool. I'd like to pick up an old one, probably one of the V4-powered ones because I don't really want to deal with a 2-stroke motor. Again, quirky, but well-engineered.


I don't have the time to talk about my experience in aerospace. But I started at NASA in 1987 and was there through about 2010. Some cool stuff, mostly on the first A ("Aeronautics") rather than the S ("Space"). Harriers are cool and I'm good at crashing them...

--DD

Not being critical of French engineering Dave....it's like art...the Citreon suspension was way ahead of its time. Quirky looking car NOW and lines weren't timeless because..they just weren't.


The car busines is a global business now more than ever and Porsche just doesn't build cars to drive on the Autobahn. The Macan was primarily aimed at the Asian market hence the name and capabilities.

There is a post in this thread that hit car manufacturing dead on about how each culture and nation takes a different approach and values different things....right or wrong...commercial viabiltiy or not.

Take the Gremlin...the Edsel...AMC...even the Delorean and the Pinto. I'd argue that Telsa while a front runner and first with EV's isn't financially viable long term.

It's a tough business.

All people learn from failures hopefully.

[wonkipop]

The French don't even make the list..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

The French had some really excellent engineering! But it was very much marching to its own drummer. Plus they tended to make things "interesting" enough that it was difficult to make a profit. Rumor has it that they lost money on every DS built up until the 70s or so, but nobody could tell because their finances were so wacky.

But drive a properly-maintained DS or a 2CV on bad roads and then tell me their engineering is crap!

SAABs were very cool. I'd like to pick up an old one, probably one of the V4-powered ones because I don't really want to deal with a 2-stroke motor. Again, quirky, but well-engineered.


I don't have the time to talk about my experience in aerospace. But I started at NASA in 1987 and was there through about 2010. Some cool stuff, mostly on the first A ("Aeronautics") rather than the S ("Space"). Harriers are cool and I'm good at crashing them...

--DD

Not being critical of French engineering Dave....it's like art...the Citreon suspension was way ahead of its time. Quirky looking car NOW and lines weren't timeless because..they just weren't.


The car busines is a global business now more than ever and Porsche just doesn't build cars to drive on the Autobahn. The Macan was primarily aimed at the Asian market hence the name and capabilities.

There is a post in this thread that hit car manufacturing dead on about how each culture and nation takes a different approach and values different things....right or wrong...commercial viabiltiy or not.

Take the Gremlin...the Edsel...AMC...even the Delorean and the Pinto. I'd argue that Telsa while a front runner and first with EV's isn't financially viable long term.

It's a tough business.

All people learn from failures hopefully.

a lot of french engineering is conventional - despite the reputation for kookiness.
eg puegeot and renault.
the renault 16 was a kind of citroen without the complications of the hydraulic systems. even the "normal" french suspension systems are very comfortable due to long initial spring travel. but then they stiffen up. they like to lean into corners (a lot) but handle suprisingly well once you convince yourself its not going to tip over and roll. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

the aussie fords though now extinct will still bring a big grin to your face when you see one. especially the hi-po GT sedans. i think they were still styled in the US studios with aussie adjustment/input until the range introduced in the late 70s. the cars were what is referred to as compact or mid size in the usa. in the 60s they did build galaxies and impalas here in knock down kit form and right hand drive. they had a market here amongst the crowd who refused to drive german (mercedes) due to WW2 memories or english (rollers, bentleys etc) - also WW2 memories (betrayal of the pacific colonies defence). so it was a statement to drive a galaxy or impala which were marketed as luxury. if you hit a kangaroo in a galaxie or impala you could keep on driving 9 times out of 10.