Show me your roll cage, Please! Options

[Charles Freeborn]

My AJRS built cage didn't pass tech (SCCA GCR)
The tubing is all to spec, just not enough. Needs diagonal bracing, front hoop cross bar, braces from hoops to wheel well / shock towers, double door bars.
It's tempting to cut it all out and start over with an AutoPower, but my car has the modified roofline so nothing off the shelf will work without extensive mods. I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.
Any pics greatly appreciated.
Thx.

[GregAmy]

Charles, what category/class are you building to?

>>> Needs diagonal bracing

A good idea. GCR also allows a diagonal from the main plane to a rear brace, which would pass through the rear window.

>>> front hoop cross bar

Depending on the category, yes.

>>>braces from hoops to wheel well

Depending on the category, yes.

>>> double door bars

Absolutely. That has been required, both sides, for some years now.

>>>I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.

Always a better idea, esp if you have a good starting point.

I can send you photos of my cage, built by @ChrisFoley . It was originally designed for Improved Touring back in '99 but stands the test of time 20 years later for pretty much anything, including Production.

I'm an SCCA National scrutineer, so glad to assist. grega at pobox com

GA

[Charles Freeborn]

Charles, what category/class are you building to?

>>> Needs diagonal bracing

A good idea. GCR also allows a diagonal from the main plane to a rear brace, which would pass through the rear window.

>>> front hoop cross bar

Depending on the category, yes.

>>>braces from hoops to wheel well

Depending on the category, yes.

>>> double door bars

Absolutely. That has been required, both sides, for some years now.

>>>I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.

Always a better idea, esp if you have a good starting point.

I can send you photos of my cage, built by @ChrisFoley . It was originally designed for Improved Touring back in '99 but stands the test of time 20 years later for pretty much anything, including Production.

I'm an SCCA National scrutineer, so glad to assist. grega at pobox com

GA

My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class. It's basically an FP with a gutted interior. The other class I anticipate is SCCA VP1.
By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more. I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base. The caveat is that in order to get it in the "same plane" as the main hoop I'll have to cut into the firewall bulge, which is fine as long as my car remains a 4 cyl. I intend to keep it a 4 as long as I run it, but eventual resale may think otherwise. I'll fall off that bridge when I get to it (or future buyer can). I'd go with the diagonals from the main hoop to the rear diagonals, but that interferes with my other issue which is cold air ducting to the cooling fan. Not out of the question, but an issue.
Door bars I'm totally on board with - just need to come up with a design that has enough room for me to get in and out with the lower roofline. It'll either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.
Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me. Also allows me to cut out the OEM steering supports and re-position, should I want to, as well as mount gauges, etc.
Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR, but as long as I can give it a bulge to clear the back of the seat (I'm tall so back of seat is basically against the firewall) I'm fine with that too. Again, if I cut into the firewall where the 6 fan housing would be it would clear as a straight stick.
When I get further along (just ordered up the tubing today) I'll sketch up some of my ideas and post here.
Many thanks for the assistance. I'm sure I'll need more of it as I go along.
-C

[GregAmy]

>>> My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class.

OK, so you need to meet Prduction regs? Does VP1 accept the same regs?

>>> By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more.

Why are you cutting out parts? Sounds like you just need ot add some bars.

>>> I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base.

Do you have tubes passing through a polycarb rear window? If so, you can run a diagonal from behind your head to the right rear mount mount and no longer require a main plane diagonal. I'm not clear how that would interfere with a cold air intake...

>>> Door bars...[will]either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.

X-bars are compliant; I think the regs actually say that? Remember, you don't have to be fancy, you just need "two door bars". That's it. So add a bar somewhere and you're good.

>>> Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me.

It is "required" in Production.

>>> Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR

Not sure what you mean by that? We do not require a diagonal within the rear legs plane. But you could use that to avoid having to do a main plane diagonal.

Feel free to hook up via email and maybe we can get on the phone this weekend. - GA

[Charles Freeborn]

>>> My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class.

OK, so you need to meet Prduction regs? Does VP1 accept the same regs?

>>> By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more.

Why are you cutting out parts? Sounds like you just need ot add some bars.

>>> I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base.

Do you have tubes passing through a polycarb rear window? If so, you can run a diagonal from behind your head to the right rear mount mount and no longer require a main plane diagonal. I'm not clear how that would interfere with a cold air intake...

>>> Door bars...[will]either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.

X-bars are compliant; I think the regs actually say that? Remember, you don't have to be fancy, you just need "two door bars". That's it. So add a bar somewhere and you're good.

>>> Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me.

It is "required" in Production.

>>> Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR

Not sure what you mean by that? We do not require a diagonal within the rear legs plane. But you could use that to avoid having to do a main plane diagonal.

Feel free to hook up via email and maybe we can get on the phone this weekend. - GA

The parts to remove are the current driver side door bar (single) as it'll be in the way of new twin bars, and the existing rear hoop cross bar which is incorrectly positioned and modified (non compliant) to allow seat to go fully back. I'll take some snaps and do some sketches and email.
Not sure if the VP1 class will have different regs. My guess is that the Production regs are more stringent, so VP1 will also be met.
Many thanks for your help.