Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Help me find my oil leak!
bkrantz
post Jan 5 2023, 09:24 PM
Post #1


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,436
Joined: 3-August 19
From: SW Colorado
Member No.: 23,343
Region Association: Rocky Mountains



As I described in my build thread, last year, once I got the engine running, I noticed significant oil drops (or more) after each drive. With winter in full throttle, I decided to drop the motor, and see about fixing the leak.

Here's the view of the front. Maybe you can see some oil.


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Jan 6 2023, 01:36 PM
Post #2


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,187
Joined: 3-January 07
From: atlanta georgia
Member No.: 7,418
Region Association: None



you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very very very hard to seal


QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 5 2023, 08:24 PM) *

As I described in my build thread, last year, once I got the engine running, I noticed significant oil drops (or more) after each drive. With winter in full throttle, I decided to drop the motor, and see about fixing the leak.

Here's the view of the front. Maybe you can see some oil.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
930cabman
post Jan 6 2023, 02:20 PM
Post #3


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,169
Joined: 12-November 20
From: Buffalo
Member No.: 24,877
Region Association: North East States



QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jan 6 2023, 02:36 PM) *

you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very very very hard to seal


QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 5 2023, 08:24 PM) *

As I described in my build thread, last year, once I got the engine running, I noticed significant oil drops (or more) after each drive. With winter in full throttle, I decided to drop the motor, and see about fixing the leak.

Here's the view of the front. Maybe you can see some oil.



We have the same concern with an oil leak in this area, also running an aftermarket pump. Thanks to the good doctor. Why are they so hard to seal? covers not flat/
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Jan 6 2023, 09:58 PM
Post #4


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,219
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 6 2023, 03:20 PM) *

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jan 6 2023, 02:36 PM) *

you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very very very hard to seal


QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 5 2023, 08:24 PM) *

As I described in my build thread, last year, once I got the engine running, I noticed significant oil drops (or more) after each drive. With winter in full throttle, I decided to drop the motor, and see about fixing the leak.

Here's the view of the front. Maybe you can see some oil.



We have the same concern with an oil leak in this area, also running an aftermarket pump. Thanks to the good doctor. Why are they so hard to seal? covers not flat/


T1 pumps OD is usually a few thousandths smaller than the T4 OD. This allows some bleed by between the pump OD and the case. That puts all the sealing duty on that thin paper gasket.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
930cabman
post Jan 7 2023, 06:38 AM
Post #5


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,169
Joined: 12-November 20
From: Buffalo
Member No.: 24,877
Region Association: North East States



QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Jan 6 2023, 10:58 PM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 6 2023, 03:20 PM) *

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jan 6 2023, 02:36 PM) *

you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very very very hard to seal


QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 5 2023, 08:24 PM) *

As I described in my build thread, last year, once I got the engine running, I noticed significant oil drops (or more) after each drive. With winter in full throttle, I decided to drop the motor, and see about fixing the leak.

Here's the view of the front. Maybe you can see some oil.



We have the same concern with an oil leak in this area, also running an aftermarket pump. Thanks to the good doctor. Why are they so hard to seal? covers not flat/


T1 pumps OD is usually a few thousandths smaller than the T4 OD. This allows some bleed by between the pump OD and the case. That puts all the sealing duty on that thin paper gasket.


I have wondered the same. Is this an application for a gasket in a tube? very sparingly of course.

Is there a doctor in the house?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Jan 7 2023, 09:44 AM
Post #6


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,219
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 7 2023, 07:38 AM) *


I have wondered the same. Is this an application for a gasket in a tube? very sparingly of course.



No. It’s an application to use the proper T4 oil pump (with a pinned or peened idler shaft). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

T4 pump OD is 2.7565” using a smaller OD T1 pump and gasket in a tube is just a cobble job in my opinion.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bkrantz
post Jan 7 2023, 09:16 PM
Post #7


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,436
Joined: 3-August 19
From: SW Colorado
Member No.: 23,343
Region Association: Rocky Mountains



QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Jan 7 2023, 08:44 AM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 7 2023, 07:38 AM) *


I have wondered the same. Is this an application for a gasket in a tube? very sparingly of course.



No. It’s an application to use the proper T4 oil pump (with a pinned or peened idler shaft). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

T4 pump OD is 2.7565” using a smaller OD T1 pump and gasket in a tube is just a cobble job in my opinion.


OK, what is the proper pump choice in 2023?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Jan 7 2023, 11:23 PM
Post #8


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,219
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 7 2023, 10:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Jan 7 2023, 08:44 AM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 7 2023, 07:38 AM) *


I have wondered the same. Is this an application for a gasket in a tube? very sparingly of course.



No. It’s an application to use the proper T4 oil pump (with a pinned or peened idler shaft). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

T4 pump OD is 2.7565” using a smaller OD T1 pump and gasket in a tube is just a cobble job in my opinion.


OK, what is the proper pump choice in 2023?


There are plenty of usable T4 pumps floating around still in good shape. Unless the stock T4 pump ingested shrapnel or pumped abrasives like rust, oil pumps don’t really wear much. The main issue with T4 pumps is potential for movement of the idler shaft if the engine is over heated. This can be remedied by peening or pinning the idler shaft to the T4 pump body.

I’m well aware this flies in the face of others that use and recommend T1 pumps. They “work” in the most generic sense. I get it, T4 pumps aren’t being made in mass and can’t be purchased new. Well, there are some CNC billet versions being made in Germany but unfortunately those are expensive and have 30mm gears which is overkill for a stock engine.

The problem from an engineering perspective is T1 pumps don’t fit properly. At best, they are prone to leak. At worst they compromise oil pressure when the OD is too small and bleeds oil out between the case and the pump body right back to the sump.

Wasn’t that long ago this happened to another member on the forum suffering from warm oil pressure issues until he swapped the problem T1 pump for another T1 pump that had a couple thousandths larger OD closer to what the T4 oil pump is.

Honestly, it’s a choose your poison thing. Take the time to find a good T4 pump or deal with T1 issues.

I’m not suggesting you change your pump given it’s what you already have and have probably tossed the stock T4 pump.. But as others have suggested, it may be contributing to your oil leaking. It’s a catch 22 because if you pile in more gasket sealant or try to stack paper gaskets behind the steel cover - it increases internal pump bypass resulting in lower output pressure. Especially so if someone were to try to use thick stuff like RTV as sealant.

Probably the best thing you can do is clean up and dry what you have. Make sure the mounting surface where the pump mates to the case is flat, smooth and sealing properly. Address the front seal while you’re in there. Then use some UV dye in the oil when you fire it back up. Immediately watch that are as best you can and after the 1st drive to see if it’s still leaking and where it’s coming from before it gets to blowing around too much. Visibility in that area sucks with the fan shroud installed - I get it.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
bkrantz   Help me find my oil leak!   Jan 5 2023, 09:24 PM
bkrantz   I found some oil inside the inner blowing housing,...   Jan 5 2023, 09:26 PM
bkrantz   Starting from the top, the case seam looks OK.   Jan 5 2023, 09:27 PM
Krieger   Starting from the top, the case seam looks OK. ...   Jan 7 2023, 08:29 PM
bkrantz   The front seal looks a bit oil wet. But is the se...   Jan 5 2023, 09:29 PM
bkrantz   Lots of oil sitting on the top edge of the oil pum...   Jan 5 2023, 09:30 PM
bkrantz   Quite a bit of oil pooled in the right motor mount...   Jan 5 2023, 09:31 PM
bkrantz   No oil visible where I would expect it if the cool...   Jan 5 2023, 09:33 PM
bkrantz   Some oil sitting on top of the filter.   Jan 5 2023, 09:34 PM
bkrantz   Meanwhile, underneath I might have just a bit of o...   Jan 5 2023, 09:36 PM
bkrantz   But the inner seals, and the cylinder-to-case join...   Jan 5 2023, 09:38 PM
Shivers   Looking at that black wire on the front of the eng...   Jan 6 2023, 08:00 AM
porschetub   Looking at that black wire on the front of the en...   Jan 6 2023, 01:35 PM
dr914@autoatlanta.com   you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very ve...   Jan 6 2023, 01:36 PM
930cabman   you have an aftermarket oil pump, they are very v...   Jan 6 2023, 02:20 PM
Superhawk996   [quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' post='3049581...   Jan 6 2023, 09:58 PM
930cabman   [quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' post='304958...   Jan 7 2023, 06:38 AM
Superhawk996   I have wondered the same. Is this an application...   Jan 7 2023, 09:44 AM
930cabman   I have wondered the same. Is this an applicatio...   Jan 7 2023, 06:19 PM
bkrantz   I have wondered the same. Is this an applicatio...   Jan 7 2023, 09:16 PM
Superhawk996   [quote name='Superhawk996' post='3049751' date='J...   Jan 7 2023, 11:23 PM
bkrantz   Thanks everyone. Based on what I see so far, I wi...   Jan 6 2023, 09:54 PM
Superhawk996   I think you have oil going in the direction of the...   Jan 7 2023, 11:50 PM
cassmcentee   Is it possible to have a Wobble in the Crankshaft?...   Jan 8 2023, 04:35 AM
Shivers   Is it possible to have a Wobble in the Crankshaft...   Jan 8 2023, 07:08 AM
BeatNavy   My two cents from my experience here: http://www.9...   Jan 8 2023, 08:06 AM
Geezer914   If your oil pump cover was leaking, oil would be d...   Jan 8 2023, 04:56 PM
bkrantz   More thanks, everyone. During assembly, I used a ...   Jan 8 2023, 10:13 PM
searunner   As I described in my build thread, last year, onc...   Jan 9 2023, 04:32 AM
bkrantz   OK, more info. And in my quest for the right answ...   Jan 9 2023, 08:12 PM
bkrantz   I confirmed this by running a Qtip around the base...   Jan 9 2023, 08:15 PM
bkrantz   First stupid: when I went to unscrew the oil filte...   Jan 9 2023, 08:21 PM
bkrantz   No obvious leak point around the pump cover.   Jan 9 2023, 08:22 PM
bkrantz   No leaks around the studs.   Jan 9 2023, 08:23 PM
bkrantz   Here's the cover off. No dramatic scoring. A...   Jan 9 2023, 08:25 PM
930cabman   Here's the cover off. No dramatic scoring. ...   Jan 10 2023, 12:26 PM
bkrantz   Here's the cover off. No dramatic scoring. ...   Jan 10 2023, 07:46 PM
bkrantz   And the pump itself. BTW, if I need to pull this,...   Jan 9 2023, 08:26 PM
iankarr   I have the same oil pump cover and it was farrrr f...   Jan 9 2023, 08:50 PM
cassmcentee   Great news! Nothing crazy   Jan 9 2023, 09:15 PM
bkrantz   Great news! Nothing crazy But perhaps prett...   Jan 10 2023, 07:37 PM
r_towle   Is there a slot in the body and cover for an o-rin...   Jan 10 2023, 07:54 PM
bkrantz   Is there a slot in the body and cover for an o-ri...   Jan 11 2023, 08:22 PM
nathanxnathan   The fan tends to suck in and redistribute oil all ...   Jan 11 2023, 11:44 PM
bkrantz   Thanks, everyone. Going back to my build thread.   Jan 14 2023, 09:26 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 11th July 2025 - 01:38 PM