Putting together a Type IV dry sump system Options

[Flat6forlife]

Hey everyone,

I'm a few weeks away from dropping the drivetrain from my '73 1.7 for a refresh/rebuild. It's an IDF-carbed 2.4L (supposedly, I haven't cracked it open yet) that'll be used mostly for street driving but will see regular autocrosses and occasional track time, hence the dry sump. I've researched for a while and have a decent plan, but I'd love some insight from those who've put them together.

As it stands, the current plan is as follows:
914/6 oil tank with the attached filter
CB or Thorsten Pieper pump (I'd like to retain the OE fan)
Tangerine Racing Oil Cooler and Thermostat setup with the fan
Requisite braided AN lines with appropriate hardware

I see that CSP also makes a pump, but I can't find anyone who has experience with them. The TP pump seems like the best way to go, but the only dry-sumped racer I've seen used the CB to much success. Money isn't an issue for the TP pump; I'll pay for the extra protection and/or simpler installation. The CB needs modification if I've read correctly. Does anyone have a preference?

Also, using the 914/6 tank and its attached filter makes the original filter redundant. Should I run the LN oil filter block-off plate or use a filter relocation adapter to feed an oil cooler (with an inline thermostat) and leave the factory oil cooler in place for two coolers? Maybe double oil filters and the Tangerine oil cooler kit?

I appreciate the insight/assistance! Also, if this has been beaten and covered to death anywhere else, please link it. I'm happy to read and learn that way.

[Dave_Darling]

The biggest problem that I can see is the pump itself. You need multiple pump stages to do a dry sump--at least one for scavenging, that delivers high volume low pressure, and one for feeding the engine that provides high pressure and lower volume. There's not a lot of room between the stock pump and the fan shroud.

Back In The Day ™, people would change to upright cooling when they went dry-sump. Sounds like you don't like that option, though.

I've heard of people running belt-operated oil pumps, but having that set of extra failure points in my oil system would make me very very nervous.

Do you know if any of your chosen pumps will clear the stock fan shroud?

--DD

[GregAmy]

Do you know if any of your chosen pumps will clear the stock fan shroud?

Was that for me, Dave? The CB pump and lines clears the stock fan shroud.

2-stage; one stage pulls from the engine and does the work forward to the cooler and back, one (like the stock pump) pressurises the engine.

I have never ever liked the idea of a single stage pump driving oil through a forward cooler *and* pressurizing the engine on a race car; even with the thicker pumps that's just a lot of work for one stage to manage. For the street it's OK, but for a constantly high-revving engine, coupled to our limited oil capacity (and poor flat sump design) it becomes a problem with extended side loads. A tuna can helps, but doesn't resolve, the design limitations of the Type IV engine sump.

I'm also not a fan of Accusumps in race cars, for the same reasons. I consider them BandAids that dont address the root problem. Accumsumps do fine what they do but they have a limited capacity and timeframe for doing it. If you have a series of corners that don't allow the system to fully recharge in between then you get a "jacking down effect" where your capacity - and available timespan - is constantly decreasing, so it just delays an inevitable.

The OP asked about modifying the CB pump for the TIV. It's designed for the Type I and @ChrisFoley did mention having to shorten the shaft (I think) to make it work. It's whatever mod has to be done to use any TI pump in a TIV engine.

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1745.htm

Chris uses a different manufacturer's dry sump pump in his F Production 1.8L engine, and his downdraft cooling system. I borrowed that engine for a couple race weekends while mine was being rebuilt (someone should buy it) and I noticed a significant improvement in basic oil volume flow back into the sump tank. That engine also indicated higher oil pressure but that is likely due more to the bleed off settings, his engine used a different external design while mine stills relies on the internal bleed off (using his replacement valve).

So, bottm line, dry sump in the TIV has been done.

IMO for autocross and occasional track use with short sessions (I've TNIA'd my street car) a good stock system with an external oil cooler (my street car's is under the trunk) is fine. The problem comes up when you start getting into really sticky race tires, extended sessions, a need for front oil cooler, and long-duration turns and carousels. That's when the decision for a dry sump system is important. - GA