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> Radiator question, for thermodynamics/heat transfer experts
bondo
post Feb 2 2005, 12:26 AM
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Hopefully I can get some input on this without too much of the inevitable "that won't work" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

I'm cutting down a large tall radiator into a shorter one.. 1/3 the height to be exact. The 3 layers of radiator will be set up in a cross flow, sequentially. The hottest water will enter the rearmost later, travel across, then across again in the middle layer, and across yet again in the front layer. The idea is the hottest water gets the hottest air, and the coldest water gets the coldest air. This way delta T stays pretty constant.. I'm thinking of it as trying to heat the air as much as possible, which would cool the water as much as possible.

So I realize that cooling capacity will be reduced, as I will be dealing with 1/3 as much air. But then the cooling capacity must be more than 1/3, because it's 3 layers thick instead of 1. My question is what percentage of the original cooling capacity should I be expecting? Would it do me any good to do 5 layers instead of 3? (by adding 2/3 of a second radiator)

The original radiator cooled the same engine just fine, in a heavier car, with an AC condenser preheating the air. I will be running an electric pump, so I will have an advantage at idle.
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914GT
post Feb 2 2005, 10:29 AM
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I find this to be some interesting stuff and when it comes to 914 V8 conversions there's not a lot of real engineering available on what's an optimum cooling system design. I wish my co-worker mechanical engineer (PhD, specializing in thermal and numerous patents in cooling electronics packaging) was interested but he's not into cars. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

I think that for a given engine and radiator setup there is an optimum coolant flow for the system, and this is independent of the power output of the engine. In other words, the flow rate should remain fairly constant and if the engine is dumping more heat into the coolant, then there should be a corresponding increase in the heat loss at the radiator (more air flow). There must be a rate of max. efficiency, if plotted it would peak out at some particular flow rate. Too low (or zero) obviously things would overheat. Increase the flow too much and the same thing happens. Would be interesting to attach a few thermocouples in a system and play around with this.

This is where an electric pump has an advantage as it can keep a constant flow independent of engine RPM and power output. Or its flow can be varied easily according to conditions. I've been very pleased with how mine is performing and I think I basically lucked-out finding a well-matched system. But I would like to understand it better as to why it works so well.
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Posts in this topic
bondo   Radiator question   Feb 2 2005, 12:26 AM
Mueller   I think by the time the air hits the 3rd layer, it...   Feb 2 2005, 01:10 AM
neo914-6   http://www.914world.com/bbs2/h...   Feb 2 2005, 01:59 AM
redshift   Ask Seanery, he knows all about heat transfer. <...   Feb 2 2005, 02:02 AM
skline   So you are not in a hurry to finish your car and d...   Feb 2 2005, 05:28 AM
SpecialK   "that won't work" http://www....   Feb 2 2005, 06:04 AM
ArtechnikA   i think you're going to have a hard time getti...   Feb 2 2005, 08:00 AM
bondo     Feb 2 2005, 09:15 AM
v82go   Hi I recently replaced my custom 6 core radiator w...   Feb 2 2005, 09:50 AM
SLITS   Rate of water flow thru a radiator is very importa...   Feb 2 2005, 09:53 AM
bondo     Feb 2 2005, 09:54 AM
914GT   I find this to be some interesting stuff and when ...   Feb 2 2005, 10:29 AM
andys     Feb 2 2005, 11:00 AM
davep   Ah, a topic dear to my heart, and a little within ...   Feb 2 2005, 11:15 AM
bondo   Ok, it looks like I'm looking at a couple diff...   Feb 2 2005, 11:34 AM
scott thacher   all this talk about water flow, air temp rise, del...   Feb 2 2005, 11:44 AM
ArtechnikA     Feb 2 2005, 11:56 AM
bondo     Feb 2 2005, 12:43 PM
bondo   Thanks for all the info and suggestions.. what a g...   Feb 2 2005, 01:22 PM
ArtechnikA     Feb 2 2005, 01:37 PM
bondo   The pump will be mounted at the bottom of the fron...   Feb 2 2005, 01:43 PM
ArtechnikA     Feb 2 2005, 01:47 PM
bondo     Feb 2 2005, 02:19 PM
bondo     Feb 2 2005, 02:22 PM
914GT     Feb 2 2005, 02:39 PM
v82go   On my application I use aluminum condit instead of...   Feb 2 2005, 03:30 PM
v82go   CONDUIT (yes I can't spell)   Feb 2 2005, 03:33 PM
914GT   Bob, The conduit looks good. Hell of a lot easier...   Feb 2 2005, 03:52 PM
bondo   Nice, where do you get aluminum conduit? The stuff...   Feb 2 2005, 04:26 PM
v82go   Check with any electrical supply place. They also ...   Feb 2 2005, 05:44 PM
BIGKAT_83   v82go the fan and shroud look like they are from o...   Feb 2 2005, 05:55 PM
bondo   Whenever I need to design something unusual I turn...   Feb 2 2005, 06:39 PM
SpecialK   Good thinking on the aluminum coduit v82go, defini...   Feb 2 2005, 06:43 PM
BIGKAT_83   Bondo I've seen and ridden in 2 914's tha...   Feb 2 2005, 07:30 PM
BIGKAT_83   Here is Boxstr new yellow 914 this is what I was t...   Feb 2 2005, 07:51 PM
MattR   You guys are all wrong, the 914 is AIRCOOLED!...   Feb 2 2005, 07:56 PM
914GT     Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM
marks914   Here are some pics of my setup during the build. ...   Feb 2 2005, 08:14 PM
marks914   Here is another, I have cutout the wheelwells sin...   Feb 2 2005, 08:15 PM
marks914   Here are the hardlines under the car when I was te...   Feb 2 2005, 08:17 PM
scott thacher     Feb 2 2005, 09:06 PM
tesserra   With all this talk about too much flow of coolant ...   Feb 2 2005, 11:24 PM
bondo   Well there are two deltaTs. One is water to air, t...   Feb 2 2005, 11:59 PM


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