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> Cold Start Issue 914-4, Admitting I'm stuck and asking for help
Blue Lightning
post Mar 16 2025, 06:20 PM
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Car: 1976 2.0, FI

Background: bought in November last year. I am least the 4th owner. Drove a couple times, then plugged up the fuel filter (? no fuel pressure when the fuel pump was running, but see note below on replacing the fuel pressure regulator), so spent a couple months with the gas tank out and replacing the fuel lines, pump (and yes, filter). Read a lot in the meantime, so corrected vacuum line issues (vac advance was connected, replaced all the lines that didn't already look new, added hose clamps). But where the car started and ran well last year, I can't get it to happily start any longer. While cranking, it will skip and catch. After a few minutes of cranking (and skipping and catching) it will finally start and run fine for a few minutes but only idle around 1000 rpm (until the AAR warms up the rest of the way?), then dies. Starter fluid has no effect, so guessing it is running rich? Pulling the air hose off the cold start injector while running causes the idle to increase to maybe 1400 rpm (but with hunting, as you might expect with that big leak). There are a lot of threads on what to look for when the engine is running lean, but few on it running rich.

Some things I have checked:
- AAR works (https://youtu.be/YmO1ZCLDB7g)
- Compression is good (130-140 psi cold)
- Replaced the MPS last weekend with new one from autoatlanta, after finding the previous one would not hold a vacuum
- Replaced fuel pressure regulator after finding it bad (yes, I've been told these never go bad, but this one would not hold any pressure). Fuel pressure set to ~29 psi.
- Timing is good (~27 degrees at 3500 rpm with vac retard disconnected)
- Vac retard mechanism is working (checked with vacuum pump)
- Spark on all 4 cylinders (checked by timing light)
- Smoke tested the intake...only leaks now are the bearings on the throttle plate
- CHT reads 2k at cold, ~250ohms at warm/hot (at splice connector)
- Plugs look okay (see attached)
- Fuel injectors are all spitting fuel (checked into bottles...all about the same) and have new seals
- idle adjust screw has some control, but I cannot get the idle above 1000 rpm with it
- valves adjusted back in December (my first time, but the car runs so I assume I didn't do too bad of a job?)

I'm at a loss of what to try next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) I'd like to consider myself fairly good with cars (we have a 1966 Mustang, as well as a Mazda RX-8 that I have kept running for >20 years), but I'm about ready to throw in the towel and have the 914 towed to someone smarter than me!

Thoughts?


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Blue Lightning
post Mar 23 2025, 12:49 PM
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Still no bueno. Added a jumper cable between the battery negative terminal and the engine, plugged off the cold-start injector fuel line, and plugged the vacuum lines on the decell valve. None of this seems to have made a change.

Video of run at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xbr0VjFFkE
~1:20 adjusted the idle air bleed screw. At the end, it is backed out so far it is almost falling out of the throttle body, but I get the idle up to 1400 RPM.
~2:10 checked fuel pressure (30 psi)
~2:15 couple shots of starting fluid, which almost kill engine
~4:20 rev up to ~4k RPM
~6:30 starts to die (AAR fully closed at this point?)
~7:45 added the PO's air filter, which make things worse

Note that I cranked the engine for a minute or two before starting the recording, then pulled a spark plug (which looked the same as the previous pictures...no obvious fuel or oil fouling).
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ctc911ctc
post Mar 24 2025, 11:13 AM
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I watched the video:

1. Once it starts it runs good
2. Takes too long to start - Spark or Fuel?
3. Seat Buzzer - HHHHhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm
4. Ignition Switch at the key?

Here is my experience - I had a 1.7 that would run fine and then not start, I was 20, and it drove me crazy - turned out the ignition switch was intermittent - know problem. Every 914 I have owned since I change the ignition switch - FIRST THING

I would:

1. Eliminate the seat belt buzzer and all of that circuitry - many guides as to how this is done
2. As you are cranking - check the ignition switch circuit at the junction box (Yellow wire?) for 12ish volts. If this is solid 12v while you have the long cranking, I have no idea, however, if you are long cranking and have no 12v - the switch behind the key is fried

Question: how many of us on this thread have experienced this before???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


Oh, as to the plenum leaks - fix them - this will be a constant cause of uncertainty - the entire DJet system is an open-loop control system based on differential vacuum between the high vacuum (plenum) and low vacuum (air cleaner area) system - The Djet system does not handle control variations in vacuum very well, fix the vacuum and the control equation is at least no longer a variable.


QUOTE(Blue Lightning @ Mar 23 2025, 12:49 PM) *

Still no bueno. Added a jumper cable between the battery negative terminal and the engine, plugged off the cold-start injector fuel line, and plugged the vacuum lines on the decell valve. None of this seems to have made a change.

Video of run at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xbr0VjFFkE
~1:20 adjusted the idle air bleed screw. At the end, it is backed out so far it is almost falling out of the throttle body, but I get the idle up to 1400 RPM.
~2:10 checked fuel pressure (30 psi)
~2:15 couple shots of starting fluid, which almost kill engine
~4:20 rev up to ~4k RPM
~6:30 starts to die (AAR fully closed at this point?)
~7:45 added the PO's air filter, which make things worse

Note that I cranked the engine for a minute or two before starting the recording, then pulled a spark plug (which looked the same as the previous pictures...no obvious fuel or oil fouling).
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Blue Lightning
post Mar 24 2025, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE(ctc911ctc @ Mar 24 2025, 01:13 PM) *

I watched the video:

1. Once it starts it runs good
2. Takes too long to start - Spark or Fuel?
3. Seat Buzzer - HHHHhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm
4. Ignition Switch at the key?

Here is my experience - I had a 1.7 that would run fine and then not start, I was 20, and it drove me crazy - turned out the ignition switch was intermittant - know problem.

I would:

1. Eliminate the seat belt buzzer and all of that circuitry - many guides as to how this is done
2. As you are cranking - check the ignition switch circuit at the junction box (Yellow wire?) for 12ish volts. If this is solid 12v while you have the long cranking, I have no idea, however, if you are long cranking and have no 12v - the switch behind the key is fried

Question: how many of us on this thread have experienced this before???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)


Oh, as to the plenum leaks - fix them - this will be a constant cause of uncertainty - the entire DJet system is an open-loop control system based on differential vacuum between the high vacuum (plenum) and low vacuum (air cleaner area) system - The Djet system does not handle control variations in vacuum very well, fix the vacuum and the control equation is at least no longer a variable.


QUOTE(Blue Lightning @ Mar 23 2025, 12:49 PM) *

Still no bueno. Added a jumper cable between the battery negative terminal and the engine, plugged off the cold-start injector fuel line, and plugged the vacuum lines on the decell valve. None of this seems to have made a change.

Video of run at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xbr0VjFFkE
~1:20 adjusted the idle air bleed screw. At the end, it is backed out so far it is almost falling out of the throttle body, but I get the idle up to 1400 RPM.
~2:10 checked fuel pressure (30 psi)
~2:15 couple shots of starting fluid, which almost kill engine
~4:20 rev up to ~4k RPM
~6:30 starts to die (AAR fully closed at this point?)
~7:45 added the PO's air filter, which make things worse

Note that I cranked the engine for a minute or two before starting the recording, then pulled a spark plug (which looked the same as the previous pictures...no obvious fuel or oil fouling).


The safety relay has been removed and the heavy yellow wires connected permanently. The seatbelt buzzer is the only part left. This was all done by one of the PO's, and the car was running with this so am reluctant to touch it at this time.

I have thought about replacing the ignition switch, but haven't found anything that doesn't work that it controls. The car does start, and even try to start while cranking early.
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Posts in this topic
Blue Lightning   Cold Start Issue 914-4   Mar 16 2025, 06:20 PM
Lockwodo   This resource from the 914 Tech Notebook is a real...   Mar 17 2025, 09:10 AM
emerygt350   If they sold you an MPS then hopefully he can help...   Mar 17 2025, 09:51 AM
Blue Lightning   This resource from the 914 Tech Notebook is a rea...   Mar 17 2025, 10:54 AM
Blue Lightning   Original distributor? Yes, with a Pertronix (the...   Mar 17 2025, 11:03 AM
emerygt350   Yeah, that's a tough decision. A leak will no...   Mar 17 2025, 01:07 PM
Superhawk996   Pulling the air hose off the cold start injector...   Mar 17 2025, 02:30 PM
emerygt350   I haven't looked in a while but doesn't th...   Mar 17 2025, 02:52 PM
Blue Lightning   Pulling the air hose off the cold start injecto...   Mar 17 2025, 06:08 PM
Blue Lightning   Yeah, that's a tough decision. A leak will n...   Mar 17 2025, 06:17 PM
Superhawk996   It ran "fine" (as in it would start an...   Mar 17 2025, 07:04 PM
Superhawk996   In photo of the plug - why does the compression w...   Mar 17 2025, 07:09 PM
emerygt350   What hawk said.   Mar 18 2025, 05:30 AM
Blue Lightning   Has your oil temp gauge previously worked properl...   Mar 18 2025, 07:12 AM
Superhawk996   Got it - agree; set aside cooling issues for the m...   Mar 18 2025, 07:49 AM
Superhawk996   Would be useful to see condition of all 4 spark pl...   Mar 18 2025, 07:51 AM
Blue Lightning   Got it - agree; set aside cooling issues for the ...   Mar 18 2025, 11:19 AM
Superhawk996   How do you know you didn’t buy it with a mouse h...   Mar 18 2025, 11:58 AM
L-Jet914   If you plan on removing the CHT sensor be sure to ...   Mar 18 2025, 12:11 PM
Blue Lightning   In photo of the plug - why does the compression ...   Mar 18 2025, 04:16 PM
Superhawk996   Good - proper starting fluid. So about the onl...   Mar 18 2025, 07:06 PM
Blue Lightning   So about the only reason that stuff won’t burn ...   Mar 19 2025, 11:01 AM
Superhawk996   With all due respect, you’re missing the point a...   Mar 19 2025, 11:23 AM
T.Rick6   :wttc: Welcome to the madness; once sorted these...   Mar 19 2025, 12:08 PM
Blue Lightning   With all due respect, you’re missing the point ...   Mar 20 2025, 10:50 AM
Blue Lightning   :wttc: Welcome to the madness; once sorted thes...   Mar 20 2025, 11:13 AM
emerygt350   Although dropping it is not at all bad, I don...   Mar 20 2025, 12:14 PM
Blue Lightning   Although dropping it is not at all bad, I don...   Mar 20 2025, 07:29 PM
Blue Lightning   Went through the ECU connector checks: - 1-13: 36...   Mar 22 2025, 10:53 AM
Blue Lightning   Spark plug pics. Have not tried to start the car ...   Mar 22 2025, 11:37 AM
Blue Lightning   Checked actual spark on all 4 plugs.   Mar 22 2025, 11:52 AM
Superhawk996   CHT 3k at ambient of around 60F is fine . 76’ 2...   Mar 22 2025, 12:08 PM
Superhawk996   Two questions 1) what did you consider to be grou...   Mar 22 2025, 12:37 PM
Blue Lightning   Two questions 1) what did you consider to be gro...   Mar 22 2025, 02:05 PM
Superhawk996   I think that the headlight bulb illuminates in t...   Mar 22 2025, 04:51 PM
Blue Lightning   Pulled the CHT from the engine. Measured: 2500 o...   Mar 22 2025, 02:04 PM
emerygt350   I ran an extra ground from my fan case to the nega...   Mar 22 2025, 02:32 PM
Blue Lightning   I ran an extra ground from my fan case to the neg...   Mar 23 2025, 05:04 AM
Superhawk996   Overall I don’t see any glaring red flags in you...   Mar 22 2025, 05:00 PM
Blue Lightning   Overall I don’t see any glaring red flags in yo...   Mar 23 2025, 05:23 AM
Superhawk996   Reasonable plan.   Mar 23 2025, 10:13 AM
Blue Lightning   Still no bueno. Added a jumper cable between the ...   Mar 23 2025, 12:49 PM
ctc911ctc   I watched the video: 1. Once it starts it runs go...   Mar 24 2025, 11:13 AM
Blue Lightning   I watched the video: 1. Once it starts it runs g...   Mar 24 2025, 11:20 AM
Superhawk996   No immediate answer but let’s work through this ...   Mar 23 2025, 01:12 PM
Blue Lightning   No immediate answer but let’s work through this...   Mar 23 2025, 03:49 PM
Superhawk996   The MPS is the "Euro" version. I had ...   Mar 23 2025, 07:25 PM
Blue Lightning   [quote name='Blue Lightning' post='3197577' date=...   Mar 24 2025, 07:29 AM
Blue Lightning   The parts in the engine current are: Engine: GC ...   Mar 24 2025, 04:36 PM
Superhawk996   Confirmed ECU is correct for the car :trophy: w...   Mar 24 2025, 06:41 PM
Blue Lightning   Where is the insane high pitch whistle coming fro...   Mar 23 2025, 04:27 PM
emerygt350   Very interesting. Did you ever try a different c...   Mar 23 2025, 01:40 PM
Blue Lightning   Very interesting. Did you ever try a different ...   Mar 23 2025, 04:23 PM
emerygt350   If it isn't pulling enough vacuum it could be ...   Mar 23 2025, 04:08 PM
sholman5   Silly question. Have you checked to see what posit...   Mar 23 2025, 04:36 PM
Blue Lightning   Silly question. Have you checked to see what posi...   Mar 23 2025, 04:41 PM
emerygt350   The video is set as private.   Mar 23 2025, 04:44 PM
Blue Lightning   The video is set as private. Oops, sorry, didn...   Mar 23 2025, 07:21 PM
emerygt350   I can only think valves or something worse. Was t...   Mar 23 2025, 04:45 PM
emerygt350   That sound isn't outrageous, that's what i...   Mar 23 2025, 04:47 PM
sholman5   For quite awhile I had trouble with the idle and...   Mar 23 2025, 05:33 PM
Blue Lightning   Come to find out it was a 275 ohms resistor, whic...   Mar 23 2025, 07:23 PM
Superhawk996   Come to find out it was a 275 ohms resistor, whi...   Mar 23 2025, 10:04 PM
emerygt350   I actually have an extra known good 73 ECU you cou...   Mar 24 2025, 05:38 AM
emerygt350   Here is a video of mine at cold start this morning...   Mar 24 2025, 06:33 AM
Blue Lightning   Here is a video of mine at cold start this mornin...   Mar 25 2025, 06:26 AM
emerygt350   Here is a video of mine at cold start this morni...   Mar 25 2025, 06:43 AM
Blue Lightning   Did you check the compression after the valve adj...   Mar 25 2025, 11:29 AM
emerygt350   Did you check the compression after the valve ad...   Mar 25 2025, 12:11 PM
Blue Lightning   And you are certain no one upgraded your car to ...   Mar 26 2025, 11:10 AM
Blue Lightning   [quote name='Blue Lightning' post='3197859' date=...   Mar 29 2025, 03:01 PM
emerygt350   [quote name='Blue Lightning' post='3197859' date...   Mar 29 2025, 03:32 PM
Superhawk996   Don’t sweat the distributor too much - the diffe...   Mar 24 2025, 07:46 AM
emerygt350   Don’t sweat the distributor too much - the diff...   Mar 24 2025, 08:37 AM
emerygt350   You should check the voltage to the coil while cra...   Mar 24 2025, 01:36 PM
emerygt350   I think everything can be back burnered until you ...   Mar 24 2025, 04:45 PM
Blue Lightning   I think everything can be back burnered until you...   Mar 25 2025, 06:12 AM
emerygt350   Here is a nice clear guide on what a vacuum gauge ...   Mar 25 2025, 07:02 AM
Ron914   Here is a nice clear guide on what a vacuum gauge...   Mar 25 2025, 10:16 AM
emerygt350   Ok, just one of those assumptions hawk keeps going...   Mar 26 2025, 12:15 PM
Ron914   I like you believe I have an original survivor car...   Mar 26 2025, 01:17 PM
emerygt350   At least they weren't as drunk as they were wh...   Mar 26 2025, 05:05 PM
Ron914   Interesting , As I grew up I heard you didn't ...   Mar 26 2025, 11:27 PM
Ron914   @Blue Lightning Here are a pictures of again what...   Mar 27 2025, 08:40 AM
Blue Lightning   [b] Thanks, but I think that second one is the ...   Mar 29 2025, 12:01 PM
Blue Lightning   So took the advice of checking the valve adjustmen...   Mar 29 2025, 12:10 PM
Ron914   So took the advice of checking the valve adjustme...   Mar 29 2025, 04:16 PM
emerygt350   [quote name='Blue Lightning' post='3198589' date=...   Mar 29 2025, 05:03 PM
Blue Lightning   Great job and this is very interesting to me ,as ...   Mar 30 2025, 10:07 AM
Superhawk996   I was an overachiever and adjusted mine to more t...   Mar 30 2025, 11:29 AM
Ron914   I was an overachiever and adjusted mine to more ...   Mar 30 2025, 11:55 AM
Superhawk996   :trophy: Now double back and verify ignition timi...   Mar 29 2025, 12:14 PM
ctc911ctc   :trophy: Now double back and verify ignition tim...   Mar 29 2025, 12:22 PM
Blue Lightning   Most importantly, get the dwell as close to book ...   Mar 29 2025, 02:51 PM
930cabman   Victory at last satisfaction   Mar 29 2025, 12:23 PM
emerygt350   Excellent news!   Mar 29 2025, 12:47 PM
Blue Lightning   Went for a drive, maybe 30 minutes around the neig...   Mar 30 2025, 01:32 PM
emerygt350   That oil seemed to heat up pretty quick. Makes me...   Mar 30 2025, 03:32 PM
Blue Lightning   That oil seemed to heat up pretty quick. Makes m...   Mar 30 2025, 04:38 PM
emerygt350   Return spring is good right? Throttle moves easil...   Mar 30 2025, 05:03 PM
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