Porsche Certificate (Zertificate) NLA Options

[JeffBowlsby]

I just learned that Porsche (Germany) has now limited their access for the Certificate (Zertificate) because the 914 is too old – nothing older than a 993 is now possible.

I wonder if this is related to the new system of PPS and CTC for classic Porsche here in the US?

[davep]

Yes, by "synchronized" I mean that the the two numbers are the same.
Back in 1965 when the 912 was introduced Karmann added their own number to the chassis; initially in the speaker recess in the dash, then after about 3500 cars it was stamped on the tunnel along the edge of the hole at the rear for linkage access. Back then the number was not synchronized with the VIN/Production #, but was in the same format. In 1968 there were 911 chassis built by Karmann, and the Karmann # again mimicked the VIN but was generally not identical. In 1969 the VIN was no longer the Production # and the format of the Production # and the Karmann # changed from that of the VIN. The Karmann # was the same series for both 911 & 912, but again they were not synchronized. 1970 brought the 914/4 & 914/6. For the 911 & 912 the Production # and the Karmann # became synchronized, but the 914/6 was not; about 2500 cars into 1970 914/6 MY the Production # and the Karmann # did become synchronized. In fact the Karmann # was not identical in format with the Production #; it was missing the year digit in 1970, but got the missing digit for 1971. The 914/4 got an entirely different Production # and Karmann # scheme, but they they were not synchronized until the 1974 model year. And, as we have discovered, not only has the Karmann # scheme varied a bit over the years (base xxy95zz and xxy90zz) but has been shared with some VW models for a period of time.

[wonkipop]

Yes, by "synchronized" I mean that the the two numbers are the same.
Back in 1965 when the 912 was introduced Karmann added their own number to the chassis; initially in the speaker recess in the dash, then after about 3500 cars it was stamped on the tunnel along the edge of the hole at the rear for linkage access. Back then the number was not synchronized with the VIN/Production #, but was in the same format. In 1968 there were 911 chassis built by Karmann, and the Karmann # again mimicked the VIN but was generally not identical. In 1969 the VIN was no longer the Production # and the format of the Production # and the Karmann # changed from that of the VIN. The Karmann # was the same series for both 911 & 912, but again they were not synchronized. 1970 brought the 914/4 & 914/6. For the 911 & 912 the Production # and the Karmann # became synchronized, but the 914/6 was not; about 2500 cars into 1970 914/6 MY the Production # and the Karmann # did become synchronized. In fact the Karmann # was not identical in format with the Production #; it was missing the year digit in 1970, but got the missing digit for 1971. The 914/4 got an entirely different Production # and Karmann # scheme, but they they were not synchronized until the 1974 model year. And, as we have discovered, not only has the Karmann # scheme varied a bit over the years (base xxy95zz and xxy90zz) but has been shared with some VW models for a period of time.

the data i have goes like this.

all VW models share the production plate scheme code during the time the 914 is built.
inclusive of the 914/4. but not the 6.

the forth letter of the code designates the VW factory making the car.
in the case of all ghias, beetle cabs and 914/4s this digit is 9.
every production plate i have seen for those three models for all the years of the 914/4 production has 9 as the forth digit.
the fifth digit is assigned to the models.
up to late in the 74 model year (i think its may 74 - id have to check the data i have, but its the time that the riveted plate appears in the front trunk of the 914/4) the firth digit is designated as follows -
beetlle cab - 1 or 2 (2 used if daily production exceeded 100)
karmann ghia - 3 or 4. (4 used as above)
914/4 (inclusive of2.0 and 1,7/1.8) - 5 or 6 (6 used as above).

that 5th digit shuffled at the time production started on the vw scirrocco at the karmann factory. if i recall correctly the scirrocco got the 5th digits the 914s had up until that point. and the 914 got the 5th digits that the karmann ghia had. the ghia ceased manufacture at that time.

ive got riveted production plates from other VW models through those years in the 70s.

i have a beetle that has 5 for the forth digit.
i have a 411 or 412 where its a 3.
i once stumbled across a bit of data which gave the numbers assigned to the VW factories at that time. i thought i filed it. i probably did but i cant locate it now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
but i am pretty sure the 4th digit signals the factory.

i dont have a huge amount of data when it comes to all three numbers on a 914.
ie. rear trunk stamp. karmann plate. handwritten number under dashboard.
but the two i have and can find easily on file (starbear and myself) - those three numbers all match. star bear is nov/73 1.8 and mine a jan/74 1.8.

what i have discovered is that the riveted plate that appears on 914s in late 74 model year to replace the number stamped in trunk is a plate that all other VW models produced at factories other than karmann had already had since around 1970 MY.
all that happened with the 914 is that VW enforced the practice at kamann beginning at that time around may. likely the production of the scirrocco instigated this formal change?

for most other factories aside from karmann the paint number was also stamped on that riveted plate and it was marked sideways. that plate was attached to the bodies prior to them being painted. it was always painted over. the karmann built VWs never got the paint code marked on that plate. i guess they built in low enough volumes that it was simply marked on the production order build sheet and the production number stamped on the body was sufficient to ensure cars were correctly painted in batches.

i've got data on the 73 1.7s and the 75 1.8s.
and as far as i am aware the k plate production number matches the number stamped in the rear trunk or the riveted plate in the front trunk.
but i don't have that much in the way of examples of those where i was able to collect the stamped number in rear trunk or riveted plate in those cars.

there are of course mistake cars.
i am aware of those examples you found for 914s in late 74 model year with the production plates that for a very short blip period seem to get the beetle digits in the 5th number. i reckon they are mistake cars that result from production line confusion as the production in the assembly hall got re-arranged to being prepared for full production of the scirrocco. my guess is that the area that had been assigned to the 914 build was given over to scirroccos and the 914 went on to the old ghia production aisle.

but generally i would have thought the stamped number in the trunk of all the fours up to 74 would match the number in the karmann plate in the drivers door jamb. and its a VW production code number as the 4 is being treated as a VW model with a type 4 model number.

i would be very surprised if this was not the case.

i can understand that the 912, 911 earlier than the 914 and the 914/6 get an entirely different numbering system. this would accord with porsche dictates. these bodies were all subcontracted out to karmann by porsche and have nothing to do with VW other than as the owner or part owner of karmann doing the subcontracting to provide trimmed bodies.

its always amusing that porsche snobs back in the 70s moaned that the 4 was a VW built car. given that all USA market 912s and some 911s were essentially built precisely the same way by karmann. interestingly all the 912s in rhd form for UK and Aus were not built at karmann but at reutter. and are quite rare. i think there were only about 100 ever built. most of which survived in australia. super rare. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)