2.0 plenum issue, Can it be removed while in the car? Options

[robkammer]

Hello brain trust! The engine saga continues on our BB. What started in February as an engine reseal, head refresh, and engine compartment repair is still ongoing. The heads needed a full refresh, and close inspection found cracks, that the head expert 'fixed' with Timeserts. Lifter wear pointed to a cam lobe that was half gone. So off the short block went to a very well know Type I and IV engine builder. Wife and I went to Florida and wandered around for a month while this was all taking place. Back to Ohio in March and I started gathering the parts needed for the re-install.
The heads came back looking great, and the short block looked even better, now with fresh bearings, a stock cam and bearings, and a new oil pump.Oh, and we dicovered that I had a 2056, Cool, right?
Got the heads on, all of the tin, wiring and hoses. Put the beast in the car and started the break in process. First 30 miles, then oil change and valve adjust, then 100 more, rinse and repeat. Noticed a pretty significant oil leak coming from the front of the engine. it was the new oil pump, totally unacceptable. The builder came to my shop in hope that the oil cover gasket was the problem. Uh, no.
So out came the motor, back to the builder who is 100 miles away. At the 130 mile mark I also pulled the plugs to see how they were firing. All good, except that three of the Timeserts came out with the plugs, crap.
So while the engine was at the builder I ordered a new set of AMC heads, shipped directly to the builder. Why not, eh?
Get the engine back in with the new heads, start the process again. Got through about 65 miles and the engine is running like crap.
All of the FI bits are working as they should, and all with engine wires are Jeff b's harnesses. The only non functioning bit is the thermo sensor on the side of the plenum.
Plugs looked ok but maybe a bit on the lean side.

Time for a Smoke test! Cool tool for sure, brings back memories of my Lionel trains.

At first glance it looked like the throttle body shaft was leaking, although I had Rocky in Walla Walla rebuild it while the engine was out the second time. Nope, turns out that one of the two unused tubes through the plenum had somehow come loose and is allowing atmosphere into the plenum. I've attached a video.

So after that long intro about my sorrows, the question is: Can I remove the plenum while the engine is in the car? I struggled getting the intake runners onto the plenum the second time while the engine was on the cart, I used the 100 mile old rubber tubes and they may have shrunk. I'll buy new rubbers again, and of course the intake gaskets. But am I delusional that I may be able to get the plenum off in order to repair or replace it without dropping the engine, Again!!??

Any helpful advice will truly be appreciated.

Robbo
 smokin.MOV ( 3.06mb ) Number of downloads: 51

[Jack Standz]

Noticed a pretty significant oil leak coming from the front of the engine. it was the new oil pump, totally unacceptable. The builder came to my shop in hope that the oil cover gasket was the problem. Uh, no.

What pump did he use? Almost all available pumps fit like absolute horse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) out of the box, will give you leaks and/or low idle oil pressure when warm due to case clearance issues.

Don't want to hijack this thread but my new build engine has a leak near the oil pump as well. Shop installed a new "26 mm oilpump" (no further info) and it leaks. Shop assumed it was the oil pump cover so this was flattened and re-installed. Same leak and now they suspect that the gasket moved a bit causing this leak. Car is going back to the shop soon to solve the leak but do you think it could be that wrong or bad oil pump was installed ? which brand/type is best for my 2.0 stock djet ?

Sorry again to interfere with this discussion

thks

Guys - Aftermarket type 1 oil pumps don’t fit type 4 engines. The OD of the type 1 pumps in the aftermarket are mostly grossly undersized, leaving a flimsy paper gastket or RTV trying to hold back oil pressure leaking between the case and the pump body.

Not trying to be short with anyone here but this issue has been known for decades. A quick search here or on TheSamba will confirm the problem as well as the 1/2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) attempts to address the type 1 shortcomings with o-rings that require the pump to be installed before the case 1/2’s are assembled.

Just to be clear, I’m not frustrated with you guys. I’m frustrated with so called “professional engine builders” that keep using type 1 pumps and don’t take any care to get a pump with properly sized OD to prevent leaks, oil pressure problems, and oil aeration. Yes - Raby uses them. At one point he was also looking into CNC’ing his own pump bodies to ensure proper fit. He may also just be measuring and only using the best fitting pump bodies. You can do that at his price point. The rest of the so called “professional” builders . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

I’ll find you a couple links:

See post #14 for size spec on OD of pumps.
www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=376144

This one pertains to the issues with O-ring pumps
1) The case has to be split to use an O-ring pump
2) Look at where the O-ring is and you’ll see why it can’t prevent external oil leaks and may make them worse. Rather than dumping leaking oil back into the case, the o-ring blocks it and forces it toward the end plate. Will help with pressure loss and aeration though.
3) Need to pay attention to pump port alignment and o-ring position. Likely need to use a spacer to fix. The spacer becomes yet another possible leak path.
4) The o-ring does nothing to keep oil from recirculating between pump outlet and pump inlet.
www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=377358

TheSamba link going back to 2008:
[url] https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699156[/url]

@Superhawk996

Here is WBX (modified Type 1) triple o-ring oil pump with additional modifications to address internal oil leaks, low pressure, etc. It can be installed without splitting the case (see the video at the below embedded link).

We have no experience with it. However, if it works, it is clearly less work to add to your motor than doing all the necessary steps to restore a Type IV oil pump. It does look like it might still need a spacer (measure during mock-up), although, the vendor does seem to say it doesn't need one, at least not for a WBX motor.

https://www.mansispeed.com/product-page/ms-...atched-oil-pump