Why pop up headlights ?, Philosophic question ... Options

[URY914]

Plan and simple: Spoilers don't work when you drive as slow as most of you do. But when I drive my car they work and I don't have headlights.

[Al Meredith]

When my Son was running EProduction in a 914 he lost a front spoiler (air dam) and we replaced it with a stock 914 under bumper piece. He said the car was all over the place with out the dam. If he reads this he may want to comment.

I've had 914ers tell me that even at highway speeds you can feel the effects if a "GT" spoiler.

[6freak]

When my Son was running EProduction in a 914 he lost a front spoiler (air dam) and we replaced it with a stock 914 under bumper piece. He said the car was all over the place with out the dam. If he reads this he may want to comment.

I've had 914ers tell me that even at highway speeds you can feel the effects if a "GT" spoiler.

Yah you can fell it slowing you down and suck`n more gas .....Fast track car i think i would want one ...Puts more down force on the road hence forth and there for better traction =faster corners and more stable ......Sway bar ajustment can help take away the ustable feel at hi speeds with the stock front valance.Ive done it both ways and can ajust to make it feel real close to the same both ways.With and without the dam... Maybe all out race cars are more sensitive to change .....jmo.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

Yes, the air dams and spoilers may not help in the tp speed department but they do aid in maintaining that speed through corners.

You need to read some more... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Plan and simple: Spoilers don't work when you drive as slow as most of you do. But when I drive my car they work and I don't have headlights.

He's gett'n feisty again... that is a cute wing though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

One other thing to note is; how effective GT lids are. We had been told a while back from someone that GT lids didn't do anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

Looks like those dummies working in the Porsche racing department knew what they were doing after all. (One of my pet-peeves is second guessing Porsche engineers) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now, I wouldn't advocate you run out and take the rain tray off your daily driver (don’t want to second guess those engineers and, it is there for a reason) but, it looks like a real cooling advantage for a race car.

[PeeGreen 914]

Yes, the air dams and spoilers may not help in the tp speed department but they do aid in maintaining that speed through corners.

You need to read some more... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Ummm... isn't that why they have splitters and wings on race cars? they help hold the cars on the track. It is a compromise when you look at power versus grip. Guess you just need to look at which will give more of an edge in what you are doing.

Why do I need to do more reading? I'm pretty sure I understand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Some of the things the Porsche engineers did is old technology. There are times when what they did back 30+ years ago have been greatly impoved, but still true that many of the things they designed are for a certain reason.

[Eric_Shea]

Ummm... isn't that why they have splitters and wings on race cars? they help hold the cars on the track

I'm pretty sure a splitter, wing or an air dam aren't going to be effective on your autocross course where the average corner is taken at 10-20mph Sparky. I tend to agree with Uncle Lightweight (you know, the grumpy one from the great State of Florida) on this one. How many corners do you know of that you can take at speeds that will effectively utilize the principle of the airfoil? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Spoilers don't work when you drive as slow as most of you do.

Most aerodynamic devices don't even begin to operate until say, 70 - 100mph. I don't know too many (street/autocross) 914's that are consistently driving along at 100+mph either so it's all basically (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jerkit.gif)

A 914 is old technology; why are we still driving them? If that were the benchmark we should all be driving the awesome handling 968 at least. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

I didn't know we were only talking about autocross (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . I was speaking for all uses of this great little car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) However, there are times up here that we do reach 70-80mph on our autocross courses.

The 914 is old tech but we can use new on it to make it better. Engine mods are generally new tech in camparing to what was available. Suspension and all is newer tech. This is all I am talking about. If the engineers had the new available I am sure they would have used it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

I was speaking for all uses of this great little car.

OK... other than Talladaga and the high banks at Daytona; start listing some corners that an airfoil would help a 914 in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Cause you did say they don't help at top speed but they do help in corners; right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Just checking... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(Bonus Points: list all of the new engine mods that will go into your 2.4 that are above and beyond a 906 build from the factory. Double Bonus: do it without help from Jeff.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Solo914]

Eric,

You are right, at autcross speeds, MOST wings do not create downforce, so you take that concept and e-x-p-a-n-d on it so that the wing will work at 40mph.



photo courtesy of Ron Bauer


Kyle

[Eric_Shea]

What's that thing? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(nice looking car Kyle, just don't show it to Brant, he'll start twitching and scratching himself and turning all red) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Solo914]

What's that thing? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(nice looking car Kyle, just don't show it to Brant, he'll start twitching and scratching himself and turning all red) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oops, I told him not to take the little blue pill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Back on topic.

I love pop head lights (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Kyle

[PeeGreen 914]

I was speaking for all uses of this great little car.

OK... other than Talladaga and the high banks at Daytona; start listing some corners that an airfoil would help a 914 in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Cause you did say they don't help at top speed but they do help in corners; right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Just checking... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

(Bonus Points: list all of the new engine mods that will go into your 2.4 that are above and beyond a 906 build from the factory. Double Bonus: do it without help from Jeff.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Are you suffering PMS Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

I never said they didn't help during top speed. I said they don't help to achieve top speed. With them on you will not go as fast in a staight line than you will without them. As to your corners I really don't know why you don't understand how they can help. If Talladega and Daytona are the only places that would help then why would all these guys that track their cars be using them to add stability?

As to my engine rebuid I really don't know what is being put into it, but the 2.4l wasn't even out when the 914-6 was made so it would technically be NEW. Jake's engine stuff is all new as well.

There are probably 20-30 things that the porsche factory never did to the 60s and early 70s porsche sixs that we do today.. first thing on the list... hydraulic chain tensioners. As for engine builds... did they EVER use low friction coatings or ceramics coatings on porsche 6 cylinder builds? Other than Nikasil nothing else.

[Eric_Shea]

Someone misplaced their sense of humor. Check out the last emoticon... just (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) ing at ya. (in fact, check out ALL the emoticon's in that last post) Could I make it any more clear that I was j-o-k-i-n-g?

Get some sleep. Geez... you critters can't have a little fun without the feathers gett'n ruffled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

eh... it's these kids I tell you. They are driving me nuts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I figured you were just being this way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[biggy72]

I know it isn't a 914, but it also only hits a top speed of around 60 on the courses it is designed for. Ask them if the wings don't help http://fsae.mst.edu/

[URY914]

Front spoilers reduce the amount of air that gets under the car. The helps reduce both lift and drag.

How many times is someone going to say that air dams and wings don't work at low speeds and then are proven wrong?

I'm gettin' as grumpy as JP....

[J P Stein]

I'm gettin' as grumpy as JP....

Bout time someone took over....I ain't grumped out yet, but I'm having trouble generating any enthusiasm fer it.

As to wings & things at AX speeds. Anyone seeing a good A Mod car run has no doubts about their effectiveness. At an event a couple years ago I saw a rooster tail about 25 feet high coming off this thing (a dusty section of the course). He was also 4-5 seconds quicker than every thing else.

[J P Stein]

OK, now 914 related....we were parked next to the A Mod. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I did a rear spoiler for the shit box......the max height allowable for class (10 inches).
It does help nail the back end on fast slaloms & sweepers (per my butt windtunnel)......40-70 mph stuff or I'd take it off. It's the kind of thing you put on for when you need it.

Back in the days when the box was streetable, a DE revealed a severe case of rear steer at 115-120 mph ....no spoiler. Scary sumbitch.

[6freak]

Front spoilers reduce the amount of air that gets under the car. The helps reduce both lift and drag.

How many times is someone going to say that air dams and wings don't work at low speeds and then are proven wrong?

I'm gettin' as grumpy as JP....

Dont get all butt hurt on us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ....Its just a friendly argument...In some case`s dams and spoilers do help..we all know that down force on the twisty stuff is good ...straits not so good...you have to set your car up for every event or differant track you run on...down force creates drag=slow speed ....stream line=speed ...but the car will become twitchy...so you need to find a happy mediam that you are comfy with for the driveing you are doing...I myself do alot of sway bar ajustments from AX to track days.....P.S i do agree the front dams do reduce the air flow under the car and i would like a quike change dam for my car (cause they look cool)and a rear spoiler ..But its already slow so why slow it down more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[6freak]

I'm gettin' as grumpy as JP....

Bout time someone took over....I ain't grumped out yet, but I'm having trouble generating any enthusiasm fer it.

As to wings & things at AX speeds. Anyone seeing a good A Mod car run has no doubts about their effectiveness. At an event a couple years ago I saw a rooster tail about 25 feet high coming off this thing (a dusty section of the course). He was also 4-5 seconds quicker than every thing else.

All do respect Mr Stien ...but that is a terrible comparison a car like that needs all the down force it can get ...lite wieght and lots of power something has to help make those tire stick...Just like that other little rocket a few post`s up from here...are we have`n fun yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)