Which JDM Subaru motor to use for conversion?, Ej20G or EJ20K or ??? Options

[bfrymire]

I hope someone can lend some light on this...

I am at the point to buy the motor. (Missed out on budmans motor.)

So, which one to buy?

Options:

EJ20 G

About 240hp, coil on plug. I think this has smaller turbo, so, should spool faster. On our small cars, this may not matter much.

Ej20 K

About 280Hp, center mounted coil (dual) and uses wasted spark. I think this has larger turbo. Not sure. I have been using wikipedia for a resource, and there is not a whole lot of detail.

As near as I can tell, I will need to get an external ignitor for either of these. Can someone jump in and clear this up?

I appreaciate any help on this.

-- brett

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

ask greg dundero he regularly posts to this site. You know how I feel!

[DBCooper]

I can't help as to which motor is better, but be careful to get the right ECU and wiring harness for that particular engine. A lot of the JDM engine importers don't include those and it's hard to duplicate them here because some wiring and controls are different on the Japanese motors than they are on what was exported to the U.S.

Oh and DON'T get a twin turbo motor unless you intend to convert it to a single turbo over here. Those motors are about impossible to use without being substantially "americanized"

[d914]

lots of questions on the K and longivity.... I have a K and not running yet.. My overplan doesnt place alot of emphasis on the block serviving long.. For a $1k you can get a rebuilt short block.... The K has a bigger turbo and your looking at more HP... check out the nasioc.com for the discussions... Nothing really clear... Coil over plug is probably nicer..

and for the record I went with an aftermarket computer and new wire harness, $1500 option, but much simplier..


Also if your near LA, outfront, use to be outback. has lots of nice little pieces, computers, engines and short blocks....They specialize in suby powered rails..

[bfrymire]

I can't help as to which motor is better, but be careful to get the right ECU and wiring harness for that particular engine. A lot of the JDM engine importers don't include those and it's hard to duplicate them here because some wiring and controls are different on the Japanese motors than they are on what was exported to the U.S.

Oh and DON'T get a twin turbo motor unless you intend to convert it to a single turbo over here. Those motors are about impossible to use without being substantially "americanized"

Thanks for the response. I have a wiring harness for the US WRX motor, and will be using the JDM. I will not be using the factory ECU, but will be using a Link G3 ECU. I am a little worried about getting the connectors, but, hey, I am good with electronics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And I am staying far away from the EJ20H motors (TT).

Thanks for the input!

-- brett

[bfrymire]

lots of questions on the K and longivity.... I have a K and not running yet.. My overplan doesnt place alot of emphasis on the block serviving long.. For a $1k you can get a rebuilt short block.... The K has a bigger turbo and your looking at more HP... check out the nasioc.com for the discussions... Nothing really clear... Coil over plug is probably nicer..

and for the record I went with an aftermarket computer and new wire harness, $1500 option, but much simplier..


Also if your near LA, outfront, use to be outback. has lots of nice little pieces, computers, engines and short blocks....They specialize in suby powered rails..

Thanks for the response.

That is what I suspected, a larger turbo. I am not sure of the advantages of the coil on plug versus the remote coil. I have spent time on the NASIOC site, but couldn't find enough specific details. I was hoping people with experience would jump in with some more details.

I have been on the Outfront website and spoke with the guy there on the phone. I will be getting some of the parts from them, such as the ignitor and possible the fuel rails.

Almost time to pull the trigger on a motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-- brett

[bfrymire]

Ok. So, I am thinking of getting this motor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-Subaru-...=item4a9fbae76b

(Hope the link works. Item 320507406187 on ebay.)

Coil on plug and should be the 236 HP variant. With tuning, etc, should be good for close to 250hp. Perfect amount to keep the tranny healthy.

I believe this will require ignitors: Probably these from Outfront: http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/engine_management.htm Look about halfway down.



Using this will allow individual fire for the spark instead of using wasted spark.

Also, the link uses batch fire for the injectors. Unfortunately, I have already bought the Link, and found it could not do sequential FI. <shrug> There will be some a/f contamination.

Thoughts anyone?

-- brett

[GS Guy]

Be sure to add up all the costs before deciding what to buy.
For instance, when you get the engine you're likely looking at doing some PM before you ever run it - things like timing belt and water pump change (at a minimum). If any of the belt idlers are rough you'll need those too. A few gaskets, possibly a t-belt cover or two if they're damaged. All that "small" stuff adds up fast! On top of that, you may find most all the rubber hoses hard as a rock and needing replacement - and generally unavailable from US sources (IAC, emission and oil cooler hoses). Lots of short little multiple-elbow pieces not easy to find a convenient replacement for.

I think Outfront has motors with all (or most?) of this maintenance stuff already done, plus tested good compression and overall check-out. Already being in CA - I'd talk with them first to see what they have that is comparable. You might have to source the trans separately, but that'll be much less to ship.

Jeff

[DBCooper]

I second that, research it well. There are lots of advantages to going with a U.S. market motor, both now and in the future. There are and will always be JDM motors available, so no need to rush it.

[pktzygt]

I have an EJ20G but it's one of the varients without the coil on plug. I'm still sorting through the details to get the EM I want to use for it though. That one on ebay looks good to me. Don't forget that you might be able to get $1000 back when you sell the transmission like I did.

[bfrymire]

Be sure to add up all the costs before deciding what to buy.
For instance, when you get the engine you're likely looking at doing some PM before you ever run it - things like timing belt and water pump change (at a minimum). If any of the belt idlers are rough you'll need those too. A few gaskets, possibly a t-belt cover or two if they're damaged. All that "small" stuff adds up fast! On top of that, you may find most all the rubber hoses hard as a rock and needing replacement - and generally unavailable from US sources (IAC, emission and oil cooler hoses). Lots of short little multiple-elbow pieces not easy to find a convenient replacement for.

I think Outfront has motors with all (or most?) of this maintenance stuff already done, plus tested good compression and overall check-out. Already being in CA - I'd talk with them first to see what they have that is comparable. You might have to source the trans separately, but that'll be much less to ship.

Jeff

I spoke to the guy at Outfront about motors, and it still seems the best bet is to buy the JDM and get the parts from Outfront to refresh gaskets, belts, etc.

The trans I don't care about, and will probably sell it as I am using the Renegade kit.

Thanks for the input!

-- brett

[bfrymire]

I second that, research it well. There are lots of advantages to going with a U.S. market motor, both now and in the future. There are and will always be JDM motors available, so no need to rush it.

I have been watching for a while, and the ebay seller has plenty of these. And I agree, no hurry. Just trying to fit my schedule. I will have a chance to work on this in about 2 weeks. If I miss that, it may be months later.

-- brett

[bfrymire]

I have an EJ20G but it's one of the varients without the coil on plug. I'm still sorting through the details to get the EM I want to use for it though. That one on ebay looks good to me. Don't forget that you might be able to get $1000 back when you sell the transmission like I did.

Hum. Depends on what you plan to do, I would make sure that the EM that you choose, allows for sequential fire FI not the batch fire. (Batch fire works and many people use it. Just not as good...)

I figure I could got some of the $$$ back when I sell the tranny. It is just a bonus being included.

So, your's must be the later EJ20G. According to wikipedia, these were the auto trans cars? And did your's come with ignitors? If not, what are you using?

-- brett

[pktzygt]

I have an EJ20G but it's one of the varients without the coil on plug. I'm still sorting through the details to get the EM I want to use for it though. That one on ebay looks good to me. Don't forget that you might be able to get $1000 back when you sell the transmission like I did.

Hum. Depends on what you plan to do, I would make sure that the EM that you choose, allows for sequential fire FI not the batch fire. (Batch fire works and many people use it. Just not as good...)

I figure I could got some of the $$$ back when I sell the tranny. It is just a bonus being included.

So, your's must be the later EJ20G. According to wikipedia, these were the auto trans cars? And did your's come with ignitors? If not, what are you using?

-- brett

Mine is from a '96 wagon I think. I looked up the engine coda a while back and forgot. It was a stick though. I have to pick an engine management with a local tuner that is experienced with the software. There is a semi-local tuner that is can work with the Link and that's what I'm going to use when I get my project started back up again. Life happened and a 500mile move, a new house and another new baby stalled me a bit. I'm going to get going on it soon though.

[r_towle]

can you flip the ring and pinion in a subaru tranny to use it as a AWD aircooled beetle tranny?

If so, I might want to buy the tranny to tear it apart to see if I can do this...

Rich

[bfrymire]

can you flip the ring and pinion in a subaru tranny to use it as a AWD aircooled beetle tranny?

If so, I might want to buy the tranny to tear it apart to see if I can do this...

Rich

Wish I could answer that one. I really don't know. Seems like it might work. not sure who to ask on that one. Maybe someone on NASIOC can answer..

-- brett

[DBCooper]

can you flip the ring and pinion in a subaru tranny to use it as a AWD aircooled beetle tranny?

If so, I might want to buy the tranny to tear it apart to see if I can do this...

Rich

Wish I could answer that one. I really don't know. Seems like it might work. not sure who to ask on that one. Maybe someone on NASIOC can answer..

-- brett

No, you can't. But there's an Australian who has a reverse cut ring and pinion, and, believe it or not, the transmission isn't too long! It fits! There's a thread in Shoptalk Forums, Conversion Perversions forum, pretty recent, not far from the top.

.