Engine Size, How can I prove it? Options

[Dave_Darling]

There were a few 72 Sixes. They used -4 steering columns.

The easiest way to tell the original displacement of the engine would be if the federal emissions stickers are still in the engine bay. (Or under the engine lid?) After that, a Certificate of Authenticity might work.

I'd be hesitant to pull out the "only the 1.7 was offered in 72" argument, because many of the cars from the 73 model year were built in the 72 calendar year, and quite a few sources seem to be listed by calendar build year. (Like the list on Pelican's site.)

You should mention that there were two different model cars for the 72 model year (914 and 914-6), and that they had complete different VIN numbers. ("47229xxxxx" versus "914243xxxx".) Does their valuation apply to the 47 vin car, or the 914 vin car? That might move things in the correct direction.

I doubt that even physical measurements of the insides of the motor would satisfy the bureaucrats. You'll have to find a piece of paper that seems official enough. The CoA may do it.

--DD

[Rand]

You should mention that there were two different model cars for the 72 model year (914 and 914-6), and that they had complete different VIN numbers. ("47229xxxxx" versus "914243xxxx".) Does their valuation apply to the 47 vin car, or the 914 vin car? That might move things in the correct direction.

That was my thought. Obviously the last DMV person was mixed up with those valuations. The 914/4 is not the same as the 914/6. If they can't tell it by the model number, maybe the vin will help? With a $9k difference, they obviously got those wires crossed.

[N_Jay]

Mistakes happen!

I had a great deal on my insurance on my 1989 Rage Rover (bought used in 1991), . . . until . . . .

. . . I got the first paper bill in the mail and found out they registered it as a Ford "Ranger".
They even had the VIN! (Go Figger!)

[struckn]

Do not do as suggested above re the picture of another car and changing the color, etc. We call that Fraud; it is a felony in CA. The DMV asshats have nothing better to do than investigate and prosecute cases like that. My free 2 cents for your consideration.

It would not be fraud, he has a 1.7 Engine and his car should have the 1.7 one the back of the car. If it's missing it would be correct to find one to replace it.

[Ross]

Do all 1.7s (mine is a 1972) have the chrome numbers on at the rear of the car? Because mine does not. The holes for the numbering may have been "bondo-ed" over by a PO (or else maybe I don't have a 1.7...).

[billh1963]

This is why I like Connecticut's gig where all cars on "classic" plates are assessed at $500 for tax purposes. Yes, even a Ferrari F40.

Why don't you ask THEM what they want to see for proof...?

I have property in NC and SC. All my vehicles are registered in SC. Why?

Just for that reason. In SC my taxes on my older cars is $22/year regardless of value. I can license my Ferrari in NC for a several hundred a year or $22/year in SC.

NC is a beautiful state...just fvcked up on taxes.

[GregAmy]

I suggest the DMV is going to be unswayed by 914-nerd-trivia such as location of the key or type of steering wheel or color of the numbers on the rear (I can envision the argument now: "BUT BUT BUT the key is on the steering column! See??? How can you not know this???")

Call them. Generally explain the offerings that year. Ask them what evidence you should provide to convince them yours is a 1.7L. It may be something as simple as the owner's manual.

[rhodyguy]

Maybe I've missed it. Have you asked what criteria the state uses to determine displacement? Engine and chassis numbers should help prove your case. That your 1.7 case COULD in fact be a 2270 counts only with X-ray eyes. The tax dif over 300cc of engine is unreal.

[Ross]

They have simply said to supply proof of my disagreement (pictures, anything that I have that could show it's a 1.7). I don't think they are looking for a whole lot and I thought this would be relatively easy until yesterday.

I did find, in the front trunk near the fuel tank cap, a tag. I believe this tag is for fueling instructions (octane, etc.). The tag reads :"Oktanzahlbedarf (Minimum)", then "VW 1700.....98 ROZ/RON" and "86 MOZ".

Could the "VW 1700" be referencing the engine size (1.7) ?

Thank you all again for your help,

[mepstein]

http://www.p914.com/p914_engine.htm

[VaccaRabite]

Could the "VW 1700" be referencing the engine size (1.7) ?

Thats exactly what it means.

Zach

[Ross]

thanks Zack. Looks like I will be sending them a picture of it.

[GeorgeRud]

1972 did only have 2 models available, the 2.0 -6 and the 1.7 liter -4. You can easily tell the 1.7 from a 2.0 liter -4 by the different fuel injection system and air cleaner set-up, as well as the intake runner attachment at the heads (3 bolts vs. 4). The VIN numbers of all real -6s start with 914...... as well.

Obviously the value of a -6 would be much greater than that of a -4.

[914_teener]

The OP never said wether or not the 9k difference was the 300cc difference.

What is the basis for the fee in the state?

Just curious.

[naro914]

Ross...you're in Charlotte? I've never been asked about displacement, nor have they ever 'taxed' me on it...in fact, they have our car as valued as $500 (somehow??)
Register it as a 'classic' or 'antique' (or whatever we have in NC...been a long time since I filled out the paperwork).

I do have to say though, they've been upping the tax rates on everything this year and daring you to challenge them. For the last 5 years, they've taxed our GT3 as a normal '04 996 - $21k valuation last year. This year they wised up and taxed it at $61,000 valuation!! I argued, they said I've been lucky the past few years.
FYI, if they didn't tell you, they use NADA low retail value. Your '72 1.7 is listed as $11,050 but a 2.0 - yes NADA thinks there's a '73 2.0 - is listed as $19,500!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Hi Struckn - Just my opinion, but finding a 1.7 emblem and installing it on the rear of the OP's car is not the same as finding another 914, taking a picture and color changing it to match your car and submitting that picture to DMV as your car as you initially suggested. Sorry. I know there is no intent to defraud, but that may not become apparent until lawyers get involved. Why tempt fate?

Additionally, I do not believe the '72 came with an engine designation on the rear panel; I think it just had 914. Not until '73 did the 1.7 arrive on the panel- I believe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[914_teener]

Sorry....just can.t believe that a public entity would base a registration fee on appreciated value from NADA for a 45 year old car. What if it is a rust bucket?

[mgphoto]

Do all 1.7s (mine is a 1972) have the chrome numbers on at the rear of the car? Because mine does not. The holes for the numbering may have been "bondo-ed" over by a PO (or else maybe I don't have a 1.7...).

No all '72's were 1.7's no number was present on the car and all had gold letters, chrome numbers and letters came in '73 either as a 1.7 or 2.0

So no extra holes bondo-ed over.

Mike

[ConeDodger]

I suggest the DMV is going to be unswayed by 914-nerd-trivia such as location of the key or type of steering wheel or color of the numbers on the rear (I can envision the argument now: "BUT BUT BUT the key is on the steering column! See??? How can you not know this???")

Call them. Generally explain the offerings that year. Ask them what evidence you should provide to convince them yours is a 1.7L. It may be something as simple as the owner's manual.

Both the 914-4 1.7 and the 914-6 2.0 had the ignition switch on the steering column in 1972.
The VIN is the graphic difference. 914XX vs: 472XX.
His owners manual should say 914 1.7
Just about any of the common books on 914's will have a passage stating that 72 was the last year of the 914-6 and that the 914-6 had 914XX VIN numbers while the 4 cylinder 1.7 was the only offering in 72 and had 472XX VIN numbers.

I would argue that 914-nerd-trivia is the only thing that will solve this for him.
He needs to go in with proof that there are only two flavors of 914's in 72, one is a 914-6 2.0, the other is a 914-4 1.7 and the VIN numbers are different for the 914-6.

DMV is probably universally stupid everywhere. I needed a title issued for the Bumblebee Racer before it could be shipped to Norway when I sold it. The fuch-tard at DMV in Sacramento told me I had to get a brake and light inspection before she could issue the title. I asked to speak to her supervisor and the supervisor told her that the brake and light would only be required for registration, not title. It took an hour of waiting and an hour of arguing but I got the needed title.

[Mark Henry]

What is this tax thing? Do you have to pay this every year or just when you buy the car?

Here you have to pay sales tax when you buy (register) the car, if the receipt is less than blue book value you have to pay tax on bluebook value or have it appraised at an appraiser that's on their approved list. This appraisal is a simple form, not a proper detailed appraisal for insurance.
When I registered my boys car I had to pay $25 for the appraisal and the sales tax on $400. Blue book was around same price the OP stated IIRC.

You have to pay for your yearly licence tag on a plated car, $70, but they never ask what the car is worth again, because you already paid the sales tax on it.
We used to pay extra depending if it was a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder, but they stopped doing that like 30 years ago.
Here it's now stupid to restore a car then register it, you register a project car right away when it's value is low.
Registration is good for as long as you own the car, plated or unplated.