Won’t start after running awhile. Options

[Penny]

Hi guys, I’m new here and have a question. Took my 75 2.0 for a 45 minute drive yesterday and it ran like a top. (FYI 55 degrees yesterday.) Jumped in the car to come back home a half an hour later and it wouldn’t restart. Plenty of fuel. First thing I checked was fuel pump relay and it was fine. It wouldn’t even turn over nor any clicks like a dead battery. Nothing. But Radio, lights, etc. all worked. Neighbor eventually came over to give me a jump, then it turned over (could have been simply because it had cooled somewhat by then) but wouldn’t start. Oh, I put in a brand new battery last summer, so it shouldn’t be battery related, I don’t think. While I was waiting for the tow truck, tried to start it again after it had cooled more, about 2 to 2 1/2 hours after initially parked, and it started up perfect. Drove it home. Ran perfect on the way home. Parked safely in garage, turned it off and immediately tried to restart. Nothing, again wouldn’t even turn over. Went out to the garage three hours later, after it cooled, and started with the first turn on the key. Any ideas what I should be looking for?

[Shivers]

Best fix I've seen.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=308904

[Tdskip]

First of all welcome to the forum @Penny .

Hot start issues are not uncommon with air cooled Porsche’s, including our 914. The link provided will explain the issue and one resolution.

The other fix is to buy a new lighter weight torque starter, that generally takes care of it as well

[SirAndy]

Sounds like your starter is failing.

I replaced mine with a high torque aftermarket one many years ago and never looked back.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

PS: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[Penny]

Thank you so much, guys!

[ClayPerrine]

Sounds like your starter is failing.

I replaced mine with a high torque aftermarket one many years ago and never looked back.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

PS: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

The high torque starters are an easy, lightweight fix. If you want a stock starter, Porsche superseded all of the old air cooled starters to one new version that spins the engine really fast and doesn't suffer from the hot start issue. I have the high torque starters on two of our 914s, and the factory six has the new Bosch starter. They both work great.

And.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Clay

[Mark Henry]

I'll never understand the logic of hating the simple Ford solenoid fix. Mostly because it's a Ford part.

But a modified Toyota starter at least 10X the price is OK. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Or ripping out and replacing the wiring, etc....

Penny, please update with your results.

[Penny]

If I knew my way around motors better, I would probably do the less expensive Ford solenoid route. But my husband, and Subaru dealer shop foreman nephew, who tinkers on this car for me, are advising me to get the new starter with the better than original solenoid. I’ve been stranded in BFE 4 times in the six years I’ve had this car so they and I just want the most reliable fix.

Hopefully I learn enough from this forum that I’ll eventually be able to do my own minor wrenching. I did learn early on about the pinched prongs on the fuel pump relay that I was able to rescue myself on about a half a dozen occasions. Funny, I pulled a relay out of my first 914, which I have saved as my donor car, and that relay wouldn’t work in this 914’s fuel pump relay spot. Weird. I would’ve thought they would’ve been interchangeable but only one relay that I found works for me in that spot. I even got brand new relay from Auto Atlanta and it won’t work in that spot either. With either this relay board or the relay board from my other 914 that I put in to see if that helped. It didn’t. But anyway that’s not my complaint - this one particular relay seems to work just fine.

Anyway, so what is my best bet after market starter to go get?

Thanks again for all the great input and the warm welcome!
Penny

[ClayPerrine]

If I knew my way around motors better, I would probably do the less expensive Ford solenoid route. But my husband, and Subaru dealer shop foreman nephew, who tinkers on this car for me, are advising me to get the new starter with the better than original solenoid. I’ve been stranded in BFE 4 times in the six years I’ve had this car so they and I just want the most reliable fix.

Hopefully I learn enough from this forum that I’ll eventually be able to do my own minor wrenching. I did learn early on about the pinched prongs on the fuel pump relay that I was able to rescue myself on about a half a dozen occasions. Funny, I pulled a relay out of my first 914, which I have saved as my donor car, and that relay wouldn’t work in this 914’s fuel pump relay spot. Weird. I would’ve thought they would’ve been interchangeable but only one relay that I found works for me in that spot. I even got brand new relay from Auto Atlanta and it won’t work in that spot either. With either this relay board or the relay board from my other 914 that I put in to see if that helped. It didn’t. But anyway that’s not my complaint - this one particular relay seems to work just fine.

Anyway, so what is my best bet after market starter to go get?

Thanks again for all the great input and the warm welcome!
Penny

If you are going the aftermarket gear drive starter route, then in my opinion, IMI makes the best one. I have run them for years with no issues. The starter on my 4.0L 964 motor is the same one I ran on the 2.0 4 cylinder back before I did the six conversion. Same starter, 3 different motors.

https://www.allzim.com/store/lightweight-ge...category_id=786


And I don't hate the Ford starter solenoid fix. But I would rather have a starter that doesn't require a band-aid to work.

Clay

[Superhawk996]

I’ve been stranded in BFE 4 times in the six years . . .

Now that's a trooper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

By that point, most have sworn off 914's and sold the vehicle.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Hot start issues are frustrating but don't have to be the norm. I drove my 1st teener as daily driver and put over 100,000 miles on it. Hope that you'll get the same enjoyment out of your car once fixed regardless of which route you choose to fix it.

[BeatNavy]

If you are going the aftermarket gear drive starter route, then in my opinion, IMI makes the best one. I have run them for years with no issues. The starter on my 4.0L 964 motor is the same one I ran on the 2.0 4 cylinder back before I did the six conversion. Same starter, 3 different motors.

https://www.allzim.com/store/lightweight-ge...category_id=786


And I don't hate the Ford starter solenoid fix. But I would rather have a starter that doesn't require a band-aid to work.

Clay

I believe that's the one I have, and it does crank like a champ. I found it also mitigated by D-Jet warm-start whatever-you-want-to-call-it thing where a 5 minute stop sometimes results in hard starting.

Having said that, it's not really either / or, is it? I have that AND the Ford relay setup. Another possible point of failure is the ignition switch (particularly the POS aftermarket ones), and I had thought that the relay setup helped reduce strain on that by bypassing it during cranking. Is that correct?

Good luck, Penny.

[VaccaRabite]

I'm a big fan of adding a relay to the starter circuit just for keeping all the load off the ignition.

Zach

[StarBear]

Yep; did the relay and the Ford starter (bolted right in) fix 3-4 years ago, without a lift. Simple, quick and inexpensive. 1.8L BTW. Not a problem since then. Thanks Mark!

[wonkipop]

Yep; did the relay and the Ford starter (bolted right in) fix 3-4 years ago, without a lift. Simple, quick and inexpensive. 1.8L BTW. Not a problem since then. Thanks Mark!

had the no start problem for the first time ever, after 31 years, recently.
pulled into euroa after 1.5/2hours up the interstate.
had lunch. 1/2 an hour break.
came back. turned key. narthing. not even a click out of solenoid.
crawled under, jiggled the solonoid wires, tapped the starter with a hammer.
(made a mistake there, should have just done one or the other first).
got back in. bam started.

sounds like i should look into this ford solonoid solution. do a site search.
find the thread. and the relay.

thanks for tip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Yep; did the relay and the Ford starter (bolted right in) fix 3-4 years ago, without a lift. Simple, quick and inexpensive. 1.8L BTW. Not a problem since then. Thanks Mark!

had the no start problem for the first time ever, after 31 years, recently.
pulled into euroa after 1.5/2hours up the interstate.
had lunch. 1/2 an hour break.
came back. turned key. narthing. not even a click out of solenoid.
crawled under, jiggled the solonoid wires, tapped the starter with a hammer.
(made a mistake there, should have just done one or the other first).
got back in. bam started.

sounds like i should look into this ford solonoid solution. do a site search.
find the thread. and the relay.

thanks for tip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Link is at the bottom in my signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[wonkipop]

Yep; did the relay and the Ford starter (bolted right in) fix 3-4 years ago, without a lift. Simple, quick and inexpensive. 1.8L BTW. Not a problem since then. Thanks Mark!

had the no start problem for the first time ever, after 31 years, recently.
pulled into euroa after 1.5/2hours up the interstate.
had lunch. 1/2 an hour break.
came back. turned key. narthing. not even a click out of solenoid.
crawled under, jiggled the solonoid wires, tapped the starter with a hammer.
(made a mistake there, should have just done one or the other first).
got back in. bam started.

sounds like i should look into this ford solonoid solution. do a site search.
find the thread. and the relay.

thanks for tip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Link is at the bottom in my signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

found your thread mate,
its got nice directions.
makes sense.
collecting the parts.
ford stuff is easily available down here.

[StarBear]

PS: Before doing the aforementioned mod, one trick that for unknown reason worked often was to turn the vent fan (no heat) on, then try to restart. Worked most times but not always.

[boxster914]

So I'm having a hot start issue with my '71 1.7.

It runs like a champ for as long as I need it (3 hours is the longest I've run it at a time). But the moment I turn it off I have to wait hours for it to start again.

I relocated the fuel pump thinking I had a vapor lock issue. After relocating the fuel pump I now get a click and dash lights when I turn the key but no cranking after I try to restart after a drive. (Before I relocated the fuel pump there was nothing- no click, no lights on restart).

So now I have to decide on whether to do the ford solenoid fix or do the new gear reduction starter.

Can you all weigh in on what the easiest fix is? I can do all the stuff that Mark Henry outlines in his tutorial but the new starter seems like a bolt on and go fix. Is that true?

Any and all insight is appreciated.

[wonkipop]

seat belt interlock relay? hides under the passenger seat.
sometimes a remnant of the system finally failing can do this as well.
ie the relay. sometimes it seems when the system was deactivated by owners back in the day, the circuit was still in there along with the relay.
though not sure that 71 had the dreaded seat belt interlock.

or tap the starter with a hammer just to confirm its the solonoid.
you can get a pretty good easy shot at if if you lie on the ground and come in from the back of the car, heaps of room. of course it wasn't raining and the ground was reasonably un filthy when i had to do it.

i've not had the hot solonoid problem in mine since the long trip i took it on.
and a tap with a hammer got it going.
mine did it after a similar long road trip, about 2 hours of continuous driving.
see above.

i'm going to do the mark henry fix when i can get some quality hoist time.

EDIT - the reason that mark henry makes sense to me - is i have a perfectly good starter.
it works fine. spins strong. its not cooked inside. i know its just the solenoid. i can't stand the idea of throwing away a really good bosch starter (i think its a bosch) just to fix a solenoid. the starter itself in a 914 is in not a bad position, its not overly subject to heat where it is. i have another car, a citroen xm, which just cooks starters because its right next to the exhaust pipe out of one side of the v6. it just eats em up. i'm not sure i could ever fix that problem other than just have a new starter ready to go in as the old one dies. but this 914 fix makes so much sense. plus i love fords. i'm a big fan of the 289. or 351 - but windsor. i ain't no snob. (i lie, not a fan of GM product).

[BeatNavy]

Of the three most likely root causes, here's how I would stack them up (YMMV and others will have different opinions). None of these fixes are mutually exclusive.

1. Ignition switch: cheap (~$20 to $40 or more depending on quality, IIRC), and at least a little bit of a PITA to install. Need to remove the dash knee pad and open up the steering column. It takes an hour or two depending on any issues you may run into.

2. Ford hot-start relay: cheap (kit is what, about $30?) and very easy and quick to install (unless you really take your time and make it a super clean install). Takes load off ignition switch which may extend its life. Doesn't help if your ignition switch and/or starter are already toast.

3. Hi torque starter: expensive (~$290), and takes about an hour to install give or take your experience with doing 914 starter. If you get the right one it's a very straightforward replacement. Really cranks which may mitigate other potential starting issues.

You obviously need a functioning ignition switch and starter. You don't need the relay setup. But I think it's in the category of great upgrades: cheap, easy, and can be removed with no trace if needed (no metal cutting or other permanent changes to car).