Bosch 009/050 points and condensor, what to buy? Options

[bbrock]

I need to get a set of points and condenser for a Bosch 050 dizzy. It looks like the correct points (Bosch 01 030) have been NLA for a long time and even old stock has dried up. 01 011 (I believe these are the same as used in most stock 914 dizzies) will work and are available. So which condenser to get? I'm assuming Bosch 02 054 (also stock 914 part) to match the points rather than 02 086 which was original for these centrifugal dizzies. I'm also guessing it really doesn't matter, but what use is having access to the world's greatest 914 brain trust if you don't use it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[larryM]

Have these - $35 plus ship for all

914-4 IGNITION kit – new distr cap, condenser, points
- Distr Cap Bosch 03010 all typ 4, + 009-034 distributors; - Rotor Bosch 1234332215 (1K resistance) all Type 4
- Bosch 01026 points 914-4 914/6 70-72, 911 69-72 903459 616-602-226-02 also 914, 912, 356 all type 4 to ’83; All 009 Distributors

[914Sixer]

Use 911 points, they are equal to the tiger stripe points in 050, seller on theSamba.com has condensers listed for 009/050. Click to open

[brant]

Check the vw places.
Cip. Etc

There were aftermarket brands making aftermarket replacements a year ago or two

[bbrock]

Thanks all. Is it important to match the condenser to whichever points you use? My guess is no and they only differ slightly in their mounts, but thought I'd ask.

Hopefully, I'll only need them long enough to troubleshoot some ignition issues with my freshly rebuilt engine.

[Superhawk996]

Thanks all. Is it important to match the condenser to whichever points you use? My guess is no and they only differ slightly in their mounts, but thought I'd ask.

Hopefully, I'll only need them long enough to troubleshoot some ignition issues with my freshly rebuilt engine.

Condensor (which is really just a capacitor) sizing is pretty much the same. You are correct that the functionality is largely the same and differs only by mounting.

Public Service Announcement Since there have been several cases of late that accidentally fried wiring -- Condensor & Points connect to the NEGATIVE side of the coil

[Al Meredith]

I got my 050 parts from "www.allzim.com" they are in Texas and list a n 050 dist tune up kit for $27.50 They are very knowledgeable . AL

[914werke]

why points?

[Superhawk996]

why points?

The real question for @bbrock is why only temporarily? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Pro's

Super simple and I've never had a set fail without warning. Can't say that for modern electronics.

Vintage cool. The young un's have no idea what they are, what they do, or how to set them.

Even when they get worn, a good old ignition file puts them back in usable shape. Ignition files -- Anyone still have one? I do.

OEM original. Just saying for the guy that duplicated the inspection stamps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Con's

Ah . . . . forget it. We all know them.

What I'd really prefer is modern FI with direct coil on plug ignition but that doesn't seem to be available just yet.

[bbrock]

Alright, here's the full story which I was avoiding because it doesn't put a certain person in a good light.

After researching dizzies for my carbed engine, I decided I wanted vacuum advance and an electronic ignition of some sort. The Pertronix SVDA looked like a good option, but when I learned people have used the 1.8L stock dizzy with good success, I looked at the advance curves of the various stock dizzies and didn't see a whole lot of difference, so I decided to refurbish my stock 2.0L dizzy, pull the FI triggers and replace with a block off plate and give it a go. An experiment for sure. This dizzy was fitted with a Pertonix III Ignitor (also an experiment since there have been some bad reviews) and I bought a matching Flamethrower coil. Now before one of you 123 snobs spouts off about how great they are, I didn't have the budget at the time, and I'm drawn to going FI before too long (yes, I know it means a cam switch). Before spending 123 money, I want to know it is going to be with me for the long haul.

Okay, so I plugged in my refreshed stock dizzy with Pertronix and the engine fired right up and popped and spit for 30 minutes of cam break-in. After balancing the carbs and dialing them in a bit, I had the engine idling smoothly and reving freely for awhile. Now, the engine fires up easily and idles smoothly as it comes up to temperature, but then begins to misfire and idle erratically as the tach bounces around like a drunken monkey. Is the issue the Pertronix, the dizzy, the coil, or something else? That's where the 050 comes in. I have a NOS 050 I bought 35 years ago and never used. My thinking is to plug it in and see if the engine runs better. If it does, then I will install the Pertronix in it and see what happens. And if that works, then.... You get the picture. I'm just trying to isolate the possibilities.

Now finally to the points. I swapped the flamethrower coil for an old spare I have so I didn't fry the points. The replacement went in 90 degrees from how I had the flamethrower mounted (you probably see where this is going). I was careful to plug the power and tach wires in correctly, but trying to static time the dizzy, I couldn't get the voltage to drop no matter where I turned it. Then I noticed the condenser wire was unplugged, so I quickly plugged it into the same side I had gotten used to being the negative side. Of course it wasn't the negative side and watched the points wire glow red hot and vaporize. Doh! Hence, the need for points to complete the trouble shooting.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Superhawk996]

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif)

oops . . . didn't mean to open that sort of wound and to kick you while you're down.

It is a good story though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm not convinced on the whole electronic ignition thing either since it has it's own list of pro & con. You're on the right track to sorting it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[bbrock]

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif)

oops . . . didn't mean to open that sort of wound and to kick you while you're down.

It is a good story though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm not convinced on the whole electronic ignition thing either since it has it's own list of pro & con. You're on the right track to sorting it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Ha ha. It wouldn't be fun if it was too easy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

From what i have read, the Pertronix I is good but has the weakness of being sensitive to being hooked up backward or leaving the key on without running too long. The Pertronix II fixed that and was probably the route I should have taken. But no, when I was shopping, the Pertronix III had just come out and I liked the built in rev limiter and was probably also wooed by the "multi-spark" feature that sounded pretty great to someone like me who doesn't no anything about it. It also has some added circuit protection for over voltage IIRC.

So I fell for it and just had to have the latest and greatest. Then I started hearing about inconsistent results and Pertronix being very stingy about honoring warranties. My unit was out of warranty before I ever even fired it up so Im screwed. Also, has anyone noticed the huge price jump on these things? A couple of weeks ago, the prices I saw were 80% higher than I paid just about a year ago. My Pertronix could be perfectly fine - too early to tell. But I've read enough about this particular model to have suspicions.

Oh well, we'll get it figured out.

[ClayPerrine]

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif)

oops . . . didn't mean to open that sort of wound and to kick you while you're down.

It is a good story though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm not convinced on the whole electronic ignition thing either since it has it's own list of pro & con. You're on the right track to sorting it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I ran a pickup coil and igniter/coil assembly from a Toyota 22RE motor in a stock 914 distributor for years. It fired right off the point cam. I had to bend the mount bracket to fit in the distributor, but it was otherwise a bolt on. The Toyota stuff was incredibly reliable, never a failure in the whole time I had it. Got the parts for free off of JDM engines I installed in Toyotas during my time fixing cars.

I still have the parts in the attic. I removed it and went to a pertronix and a stock coil just because the owner of the car (Betty) wasn't overly fond of the look of Toyota parts on her Porsche.

Clay

[Superhawk996]

I ran a pickup coil and igniter/coil assembly from a Toyota 22RE motor in a stock 914 distributor for years.

Clay

Now that sounds interesting. I trust Toyota design and quality control over a whole lot of aftermarket electronic ignition stuff. The idea that there is no reverse polarity protection and/or the units can overheat from leaving key on too long are really basic design flaws in my book.

I'll have to dig in on the Toyota option.

The main thing for me is I've never quite seen the benefit of replacing the points only to leave a fickle rotor, and distributor cap behind. I've sort of always been in favor or all in on modern FI and direct ignition or just staying vintage points and distributor.

Not trying to change anyones mind. Just a personal preference.

I did see Dub Shop had a replacement for the distributor to establish cam timing. Having both crank and cam signals brings potential to Microsquirt and other aftermarket FI systems to do direct ignition. Currently sold out but looks like he's working on V2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

http://thedubshop.com/mini-cam-sync/

[bbrock]

The idea that there is no reverse polarity protection and/or the units can overheat from leaving key on too long are really basic design flaws in my book.

Which was fixed with Ignitor II

The main thing for me is I've never quite seen the benefit of replacing the points only to leave a fickle rotor, and distributor cap behind. I've sort of always been in favor or all in on modern FI and direct ignition or just staying vintage points and distributor.

Well, this morning has been a nice trip down memory lane to remind me just how much I HATE fiddle farting around with points. I don't know what it is, but it presses all my anger buttons, and it's a treat you get to repeat every 6,000 miles. No thanks.

[bbrock]

Well, the Pertronix III seems to be working just fine in the 050 dizzy so I now have a new SDVA dizzy on its way.

[930cabman]

why points?

I like points, sure they are not as precise as an electronic system, but old school is a good school

[ClayPerrine]

I did see Dub Shop had a replacement for the distributor to establish cam timing. Having both crank and cam signals brings potential to Microsquirt and other aftermarket FI systems to do direct ignition. Currently sold out but looks like he's working on V2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

http://thedubshop.com/mini-cam-sync/

Just get a late model Vanagon hall effect distributor. It is a drop in replacement that works great with Microsquirt.

https://www.busdepot.com/300920e

Clay

[Superhawk996]

I did see Dub Shop had a replacement for the distributor to establish cam timing. Having both crank and cam signals brings potential to Microsquirt and other aftermarket FI systems to do direct ignition. Currently sold out but looks like he's working on V2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

http://thedubshop.com/mini-cam-sync/

Just get a late model Vanagon hall effect distributor. It is a drop in replacement that works great with Microsquirt.

https://www.busdepot.com/300920e

Clay

Interesting option but my goal would be to eliminate the distributor completely. My point of view is that there is little sense in elimination of the points but leaving behind the rotor and cap. Direct ignition is the way to go. Coil on plug as would be even better. I'm still partial to you Toyota suggestion if I were to do anything, but, like knowing there are other options out there! Thanks Clay!

[MarkV]

I think you will find that the advance curve on a 050 is not going to work very well on a carbed 914. The car will run but only marginally well. There will be a flat spot in off the line acceleration. You can adjust the flat spot out but then the total advance is all wrong. In fact I don't think any of the Bosch distributors will work as well as a properly set up aftermarket distributor. If you can find an old Mallory dual point distributor and convert it to a Pertronix II the car will run completely different. The Mallory has a user adjustable total advance setting and with the proper advance springs the curve is pretty perfect. The Mallory also has a bigger cap with more space between the wire lugs and more robust bearings.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)