Hellhole and Longs Inspection when looking at a car, How to inspect the Hellhole and Left/Pass Long? Options

[J-Gaz]

I've been reading up on 914s for the better part of 2-3 years. Maybe longer.
I've been shopping and looking at them locally here in the Puget Sound for over a year now.

Lots of cars seem to be really rusty... and bondo'd or repainted [AKA covered up] under the battery, in the hellhole, in the rear trunk, the lower Bulkhead etc - the usual spots people tell you to look for.

I even saw one where someone bondo'd up the hips where the longs, floor pan, and bulkhead meet - underneath the car... and coated with an undercoat - but the bondo was clearly flaking off, and they did a piss-poor job with their putty spreader, leaving tool marks everywhere.

I still haven't found a 'good way' to inspect the Left/Pass Long. To me - that's the actual 'HellHole' as the battery tin isn't as difficult to get to. But when it starts to leak down into the long, and eat it apart - that's the crux of it.

No one seems interested in removing the rocker for me either, and even when I squeeze my head to attempt to observe the jacking point, I can't see much.

Plus, there doesn't seem to be a good way to inspect inside the left long when I'm out looking at these 'projects' - because all of them seem to be, no matter what price point I look at... a project.

Any tips or tricks to help inspect these areas when I'm meeting people to see about a purchase?

Should I get a cheap borescope? IF so, where can I access the long to insert the camera?

Really appreciate it.

J.

[Cairo94507]

Yeah, it is difficult. I have inspected a few cars and I take a small floor jack, rubber pad, flashlight, pick and safety glasses.

Jack the car up, block the wheels to be sure it is not going to roll, and get under and look closely with the flashlight and use the pick to check the metal frame and suspension points. I check both sides of the car to be as sure as one can be without disassembling a car.

I also have the top removed and open the doors and get someone to stand on the rocker and kind of bounce up and down a bit to see if the chassis is flexing. Check the typical spots in the door jamb for rust that has been covered up- a magnet is helpful here. Check the sail-panel where it meets the quarter panel, check around the windshield frame and the rear lights.

If you can remove the floor mats and carpet easily, do that to check the floor. Check the bottom of the firewall if possible (some cars have not got a backed or it is just sitting in place).

Look in the front and rear trunks for obvious rust of sloppy repairs. Check around the brake fluid reservoir for rust as well as the pedal cluster it possible.

Then comes mechanical and electrical. Mechanical is not that big of a deal. When it comes to electrical, try to determine if everything works. Turn everything on/off and verify it functions. All is fixable, but if something does not work, that may help negotiate a better deal.

A paint gauge will help you determine how many layers of paint may be on the car- another indicator of condition.

Good luck; there are good cars out there looking for a home. Patience and persistence is the key. Once you know what it is you are looking at, you will be able to ID "the one" when you see it and make the purchase. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Chad911sc]

I ran into the same thing when I bought mine. I would say if you see rot in the Hell hole, battery tray missing and not clean metal below it, you can pretty much bet that the long below is suffering. I spent 6 months repairing mine and getting the frame straight and true. It’s a huge job that I do not ever want to do again. Definitely be picky and take your time with a fine tooth comb. From 10 feet mine looked perfect, but I found hidden treasures of disrepair everywhere over the last year of restoration.

[Artfrombama]

I ran into the same thing when I bought mine. I would say if you see rot in the Hell hole, battery tray missing and not clean metal below it, you can pretty much bet that the long below is suffering. I spent 6 months repairing mine and getting the frame straight and true. It’s a huge job that I do not ever want to do again. Definitely be picky and take your time with a fine tooth comb. From 10 feet mine looked perfect, but I found hidden treasures of disrepair everywhere over the last year of restoration.

Good advice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Don’t be swayed by shiny paint and seller representation. Get the car on a lift and carefully look at the hell hole and longitudinal area from underneath. Other areas are the floor pans, rear bulkhead, rear trunk floor, pedal area.
It took me two years to find a solid car, they’re out there but getting more difficult to find.
Good luck!

[brant]

I always have insisted on pulling the rocker. Always
If they refuse. I move on

You could ask for a pre purchase where a shop pulled the rocker for you

[J-Gaz]

Great advice all around.
I'm familiar with all the 'usual spots' I thought, but never had anyone say to look at the pedal cluster, or near the break fluid resivior, so I'll add that to my punch list.

I've watched a lot of Dr. 914/ AutoAtlanta videos on how to inspect and what to look for, then used that info to build out a punch list.

But the 'HellHole' and subsequent rot in the passenger jackpoint, and Long is elusive when rolling around in a parking lot.

I've never gotten to a point where I thought a PPI was warrented, because everything I've seen was just too far gone in all the other places, and on top of the hellhole/ bulkhead/firewall corner where if you see pitting, flaking, and bondo - you just know the long is toast.

So it sounds like there is no clever way to 'borescope' that long, or truly see inside it.

Like Brant says - Insist on Pulling the Rocker.

And @Cairo94507 , are you using the jacking tube for this? Or another Jacking point. I like the idea of jacking it up and using a flashlight. In one of Dr 914's videos he mentions also jacking up the car and opening and closing the doors - I think that was him. Plus just checking door gaps that may indicate the hips are sagging.

But sounds like the only way to inspect is the 'hard way'
Jack up the car, Flashlights, and pull the rockers.

Is that what I should take away from this?

Thanks so much - super helpful.

[mepstein]

It’s not so much the hole in the engine shelf and he’ll hole that are a problem, it’s the longs (they connect the front and back of the car) and the inboard and outboard rear suspension mounts that end up disintegrating from the water and battery acid mix.
Quickest way to tell is to see the passenger tire leaning in at the top of the car. That’s the suspension mounts failing. Jack up the car, take off the passenger rear wheel and inspect the suspension mounting points.
Many times people will say they fixed the hell hole because they welded in some replacements sheet metal. It’s all the stuff at the bottom of the car that really matters.
And the passenger side engine mount. It rusts where it’s mounted on the long. Hard to see until the engine is out.

[Chad911sc]

Yes you are correct.
Only way is all those things.
And if you jack it up using the jack post and it rips out and falls, you’ll know that’s not the one for you…
And pay attention to the top of the door at the jam before and after jacking it up, this will clue you to how strong the longs are. If either side changes at all, it’s a no go.

[Chad911sc]

When the car got to me from the shipper….
After All the work…..

[Root_Werks]

You can boreascope the long a bit. In the engine bay there is a hole on each long tucked up under the rear trunk. Believe it was there as a vent or something? Either way, when folks wash their 914's, water can get up into that hole.

I've stuck a boreascope down that hole and run all the way past the "hell hole" area.

-Dan

[Cairo94507]

@J-GAZ - I never use the jack port on the rocker. I always jack up from the jack points under the car - the round circles on the underbody. If a seller is serious and has nothing to hide, they should have already pulled the rocker covers off and taken pictures to post with the car ad. But, I would still like to see and poke them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

look in front of the rear wheel forward with a bright light

I've been reading up on 914s for the better part of 2-3 years. Maybe longer.
I've been shopping and looking at them locally here in the Puget Sound for over a year now.

Lots of cars seem to be really rusty... and bondo'd or repainted [AKA covered up] under the battery, in the hellhole, in the rear trunk, the lower Bulkhead etc - the usual spots people tell you to look for.

I even saw one where someone bondo'd up the hips where the longs, floor pan, and bulkhead meet - underneath the car... and coated with an undercoat - but the bondo was clearly flaking off, and they did a piss-poor job with their putty spreader, leaving tool marks everywhere.

I still haven't found a 'good way' to inspect the Left/Pass Long. To me - that's the actual 'HellHole' as the battery tin isn't as difficult to get to. But when it starts to leak down into the long, and eat it apart - that's the crux of it.

No one seems interested in removing the rocker for me either, and even when I squeeze my head to attempt to observe the jacking point, I can't see much.

Plus, there doesn't seem to be a good way to inspect inside the left long when I'm out looking at these 'projects' - because all of them seem to be, no matter what price point I look at... a project.

Any tips or tricks to help inspect these areas when I'm meeting people to see about a purchase?

Should I get a cheap borescope? IF so, where can I access the long to insert the camera?

Really appreciate it.

J.

[J-Gaz]

Hey @dr914 @autoatlanta.com,
Been watching your videos and taking lots of notes.

So, Sounds like crawling under the Pass side, forward of the rear wheel, and shining a bright light, is the best/ only real way to inspect?

I was hoping there might be an access hole in part of the longs/ Rocker to try to see what's happening inside behind the Jacking point going up towards the battery from the inside with a borescope, but that seems to be a pipe dream.

appreciate the tips, I've got quite the list of 'checks' to perform, from using a straight edge and checking door gaps, to crawling under with big lights and shooting pictures to try to dissect rust issues

[J-Gaz]

You can boreascope the long a bit. In the engine bay there is a hole on each long tucked up under the rear trunk. Believe it was there as a vent or something? Either way, when folks wash their 914's, water can get up into that hole.

I've stuck a boreascope down that hole and run all the way past the "hell hole" area.

-Dan

Do you have a picture for reference so that I know what I'm looking for - this is super interesting, and could be wicked helpful.

Thank you so much!

[J-Gaz]

@J-GAZ - I never use the jack port on the rocker. I always jack up from the jack points under the car - the round circles on the underbody. If a seller is serious and has nothing to hide, they should have already pulled the rocker covers off and taken pictures to post with the car ad. But, I would still like to see and poke them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've found that most 914 sellers aren't really 914 guys - and they really know nothing about their cars aside from tertiary info. A lot of them don't even know if they have a tail shift or side shift, or what year it changed.

Even on BAT, I see sellers commenting, "We did not take off the rocker cover, not sure what you wanted to see with them off, but hopefully the photos and videos are enough to answer your questions." Pretty consistently.

One guy said something to the effect of: "I'm not taking them off, the bolts are rusty, and I don't want to fuss with it or have it cause an issue trying to put them back on."

That said, hoping this helps me find a gem... But so far, mostly guys asking too much for rustbuckets that look like one hard corner will fold them in half.