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> Custom Trailing Arms, A Progress Thread
tat2dphreak
post Jul 13 2005, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (Terryst1 @ Jul 13 2005, 05:51 PM)
HE IS SHARP!!

DUH! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

this is painfully obvious by this thread... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 13 2005, 08:05 PM
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Cool.

Yes. I have/had jigs/fixtures for a 5 inch round chrome moly control arm using a 911SC wheel bearing. Just like the ones on Roger Sheridans car.


B
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Verruckt
post Jul 14 2005, 05:48 AM
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So when are these going to be available for sale, and how much? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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redshift
post Jul 14 2005, 06:08 AM
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Unreal work, fantastic!


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RON S.
post Jul 14 2005, 07:42 AM
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QUOTE (andys @ Jul 13 2005, 01:34 PM)
QUOTE (airsix @ Jul 13 2005, 12:16 PM)
How's the weight compared to stock? I wonder if I could talk Dad into doing a finite element analysis on your design, but using aluminum.  :idea:

-Ben M.

Ben,

I started thinking in steel, went to aluminum, then back to steel. I got cught up with the aluminum version mainly due to the weight advantage, carriers/paper weights (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Andy

I think your kicking some serious butt on this issue.

Since I work in a fab/machine shop,I've entertained the idea of making a prototype set for my car.

However,I've been leaning towards doing them out of full titanium.

I couldn't see making the necessary fixturing for a trailing arm set,unless the final product reduced some serious unsprung weight.

I've used a place out Michigan,Tico Titanium for several parts Ive' designed and lasered out for my 6r,so I know it's cost versus weight trade off.Cost is currently about 15.00 a lb.

However,all that being said,if you've already done all the hard work,and all your jig measurements are correct,you may wanna think about capitalizing offa your efforts.

Maybe professionalize a drawing for your jig to sell,or maybe out right sell jigs to others.

I know I'd be interested in drawing plans.

Drawings would take the guesswork outa the whole setup.


Way to go. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Ron
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andys
post Jul 14 2005, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Jul 13 2005, 06:05 PM)
Cool.

Yes. I have/had jigs/fixtures for a 5 inch round chrome moly control arm using a 911SC wheel bearing. Just like the ones on Roger Sheridans car.


B

Brad,

Are these the one's you're speaking of? Hope the file size is not too large...........

Andy


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Tubular_Trail_Arms.doc ( 94k ) Number of downloads: 160
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andys
post Jul 14 2005, 10:51 AM
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Hmmm, file format problem.......Anyway, they are the assembly three large tubes with a provision for camber adjustment, right?

Andy
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andys
post Jul 14 2005, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (RON S. @ Jul 14 2005, 05:42 AM)

I think your kicking some serious butt on this issue.

Since I work in a fab/machine shop,I've entertained the idea of making a prototype set for my car.

However,I've been leaning towards doing them out of full titanium.

I couldn't see making the necessary fixturing for a trailing arm set,unless the final product reduced some serious unsprung weight.

I've used a place out Michigan,Tico Titanium for several parts Ive' designed and lasered out for my 6r,so I know it's cost versus weight trade off.Cost is currently about 15.00 a lb.

However,all that being said,if you've already done all the hard work,and all your jig measurements are correct,you may wanna think about capitalizing offa your efforts.

Maybe professionalize a drawing for your jig to sell,or maybe out right sell jigs to others.

I know I'd be interested in drawing plans.

Drawings would take the guesswork outa the whole setup.


Way to go. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Ron

Ron,

Titanium should be a viable alternative from a material properties perspective, but the costs would be quite high. Using your $15/lb pricing, the billet for the bearing carriers alone would cost about $360. The weight advantage of titanium over steel is not huge (about 60% the weight of steel), and depending on which alloy you choose you may find you need added thickness to get the strength (when comparing like designs). Ti CP grade I, has a tensile of anbout 35ksi. CRS (cold rolled steel) is about 60ksi. You'd have to go to Grade III to get comparable properties, and that would likely drive the cost up even more. Do you have the price for Grade III? I suppose if you want to spend the money for your personal project, then that is certainly your decision. Sure would look zippy if they were polished. Have you checked on welding? From past experience, few weld shops have adequate Ti welding experience, but that is not an issue if you hold that particular skill. I have experience with EB and Laser welding Ti, but have never TIG welded Ti myself. Like aluminum, Ti has a high CTE, so you'll have to pay real close attention during welding, as things will move around a lot.

For titanium money, I might be inclined (maybe) to go with aluminum for even greater weight savings (about 30% the weight of steel) and use those dollars for *proper post weld treatment*.

I don't know if I want to put in the effort to make proper detailed drawings of my weld fixture at this time. It would be pretty time consuming.

These arms are for a street application, and have durability and adequacey as a focus.
If I were doing a track car suspension, I think would have approached the design a lot differently.
Here's a simple basic guide for design considerations with useful links to freeware:
http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/designstrategies.html

BTW guys, I appreciate the comments.

Andy
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Mueller
post Jul 14 2005, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (andys @ Jul 14 2005, 09:51 AM)
Hmmm, file format problem.......Anyway, they are the assembly three large tubes with a provision for camber adjustment, right?

Andy

Your trailing arms look good Andy....I'm too much of a hack to show pictures of anything I've done, hence the piss-poor camera phone to mask my butchery (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Correct on those tube weldments, the biggest change is making them a true trailing arm instead of semi-trailing like the stock 914 is....not an easy task on a bone stock 914....I know someone on this site was supposed to be building a 914 race car with relocated mounting mounts (not just "up", but so that the axle is perp. to the chassis centerline)

Have you seen Armandos 914/6 GT buildup??

His rear trailing arms are pretty trick, just a few hours worth of work put into them (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)

Rear trailing arms with spherical bearings


Now you are going to powdercoat your new trailing arms correct??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)


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andys
post Sep 12 2005, 12:31 PM
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The latest pic's to update my progress. The trailing arms are assembled, but not placed on the car. That will follow sometime later when I fit the flares to the (wider) wheels.

Bottom view of left side:

Andys


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andys
post Sep 12 2005, 12:34 PM
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Don't ask me why I chose blue. It photographs better than black.

Close of bottom left.

Andys


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andys
post Sep 12 2005, 12:37 PM
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Wilwood mechanical spot caliper. I designed the parking brake cable bulkhead and the hydraulic brake line bulkhead to pick up the stock locations, thus the stock connections.

Close of parking brake:

Andys


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TravisNeff
post Sep 12 2005, 12:39 PM
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That is trick!
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tat2dphreak
post Sep 12 2005, 12:41 PM
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(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) those look amazing!
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andys
post Sep 12 2005, 12:41 PM
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BTW, the heavy P-brake return spring is a must, otherwise the cable will not properly extend and the P-brake pads will drag.

Andys
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Aaron Cox
post Sep 12 2005, 01:29 PM
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dude!!!
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Andyrew
post Sep 12 2005, 02:03 PM
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when are they going in production!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Cool beans!!!!!
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914MF
post Sep 12 2005, 02:35 PM
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(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) Those are awesome!!!!!!!!
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Britain Smith
post Sep 12 2005, 03:52 PM
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Those look awesome.

However, what is the advantage of your design? Maybe I missed something, but you still don't have a method to adjust rear camber with this set-up. Just wondering.

-Britain
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Aaron Cox
post Sep 12 2005, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Sep 12 2005, 02:52 PM)
Those look awesome.

However, what is the advantage of your design? Maybe I missed something, but you still don't have a method to adjust rear camber with this set-up. Just wondering.

-Britain

bigger bearings was one thing noted, along with late model hubs to facilitate beefier axle install.

He also stated that he could "BUILD" up to 3 degrees of camber in to them, but to adjust, you still require shims like stock
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