what have you done with stock FI and performance mods?, quest for a killer D-jet 2056cc motor Options

[realred914]

what are the trick mods for performance power when building a D-jet motor . it is a tired 2 liter that will be getting a big bore 2056 piston kit.

what are recommendations for valves, porting compresion , etc....

will be a driver car 91 octane gas, , have SS heater exchanger, and I do want heat.

what can be done during rebuild to beef up the power????

[914werke]

check out the eng. FS in my signature (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) .

[Bleyseng]

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything


115-120hp with Djet and SSI HE's

[realred914]

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything


115-120hp with Djet and SSI HE's

thanks for the info, what is done to a raby head? i got my stock 2 liter heads and plan to rework them with new seats and weld any cracks. does a raby head have additional work done on it?, if so what?

[Jake Raby]

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything


115-120hp with Djet and SSI HE's

thanks for the info, what is done to a raby head? i got my stock 2 liter heads and plan to rework them with new seats and weld any cracks. does a raby head have additional work done on it?, if so what?

First of all we don't rebuild any OE castings, the majority should have been disposed of 25 years ago. All heads that we offer are based on NEW castings.

For details on what separates our cylinder head program from the rest, follow this link, then each head offering- I even have flow charts for all the offerings.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...7&Itemid=91

Or if you want to just build the best stock FI 2056 you could just buy my full engine kit that has heads and the entire combination as well as all machine and balance work complete.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...7&Itemid=67

Or download this general presentation
http://www.rdtlabs.com/Presentations/v2RAT...gram%20main.pps

Then see the specifics of the 2056 kit for stock FI to include dyno charts here
http://www.rdtlabs.com/Presentations/2010%...t%20details.pps

[realred914]

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything


115-120hp with Djet and SSI HE's

thanks for the info, what is done to a raby head? i got my stock 2 liter heads and plan to rework them with new seats and weld any cracks. does a raby head have additional work done on it?, if so what?

First of all we don't rebuild any OE castings, the majority should have been disposed of 25 years ago. All heads that we offer are based on NEW castings.

For details on what separates our cylinder head program from the rest, follow this link, then each head offering- I even have flow charts for all the offerings.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...7&Itemid=91

Or if you want to just build the best stock FI 2056 you could just buy my full engine kit that has heads and the entire combination as well as all machine and balance work complete.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...7&Itemid=67

Or download this general presentation
http://www.rdtlabs.com/Presentations/v2RAT...gram%20main.pps

Then see the specifics of the 2056 kit for stock FI to include dyno charts here
http://www.rdtlabs.com/Presentations/2010%...t%20details.pps

No technical info on parts selection was found on these powerpoint presentations.

i am looking for specific things to do on a 2056 engine. I am told i have to pick the compression , valves sizes and such first, before ording a cam.

I am looking for direction in picking these things as I have not purchased anything except main bearings at this point, so I am open to all the options

I t would be nice to have some suggested parts list that would be compatable with the correct cam and such, thats what i am looking for.

anyone?

[Bleyseng]

Look at this for head info on the LE180 -http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=96-

this is fairly technical but there isn't a "How to Preformance rebuild 914 Heads for Dummies" youtube video that I know of its how Jake and Len make their living.

Raby 95-- cam/valve train upgrade kit works fantastic with Djet.
cylinders bored out to 96mm with new Keith Black pistons to match...

CR from 8 to 9 to one
Rods have notched for oil squirting
balance everything!

Really, if you just want to build without hassle the "Best" 2056 engine just order a kit as its all ready to assemble with parts that fit with the proper clearances. Buying parts from all kinds of different suppliers will create some difficulties but you will learn alot ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[realred914]

Look at this for head info on the LE180 -http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=96-

this is fairly technical but there isn't a "How to Preformance rebuild 914 Heads for Dummies" youtube video that I know of its how Jake and Len make their living.

Raby 95-- cam/valve train upgrade kit works fantastic with Djet.
cylinders bored out to 96mm with new Keith Black pistons to match...

CR from 8 to 9 to one
Rods have notched for oil squirting
balance everything!

Really, if you just want to build without hassle the "Best" 2056 engine just order a kit as its all ready to assemble with parts that fit with the proper clearances. Buying parts from all kinds of different suppliers will create some difficulties but you will learn alot ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

Ok got it now, thanks, hard for me to find the info on rabys site, he has a lot of stuff on it
see below:

"Technical specifications for the RAT LE 180-914 cylinder heads:

Head casting type- NEW 2.0L Bus castings modified to 2.0/914

Combustion chamber shape- exact digitized replica of the 2.0-914 combustion chamber

Combustion chamber volume- 56cc+/-

Spark plug location- 2.0 914 location. Plug relocated from conventional location to promote efficiency, chamber strength and aesthetics for 2.0 engine owners.

Spark plug diameter- 12mm, reduced from 14mm to enhance chamber strength and help resist cracking related to potential over heating (should it occur)

Valve sizes- 42mm Intake/ 36mm Exhaust

Port work- Fully digitized CNC machined intake and exhaust ports that flow within 2% of the OEM 2.0 914 cylinder head!

Valve type- Stainless Steel

Valve Springs- RAT single heavy duty. Will control valves to 6,250 RPM +/- dependant upon camshaft and valve train mass.

Valve spring pressures- 215#@ .500 lift/ 120# seated

Retainers- Chromoly steel

Intake manifold pattern- original 4 stud pattern, no alterations made. Port matched manifolds are not included in the price. Installer is responsible for port matching manifolds. OPTIONAL "3 studding" available at added expense
"


so what I gather is offered by raby is a new bus head modified to replicate the 2 liter 914 head with smaller diameter spark plug threads but same chamber and ports. and same valve sizes. does this seem right?

So it appears I can fix my heads to be more or less the same not sure if i will change the plug hole or not.

so the stock valves work with the raby cam (still have no idea which cam to choose, several are offered)


I also see Elgin cams offers some choices on performance cams that are D-jet compatible, (for example 330 cam(shown in bold print below)) has any one used these cams? It was suggested by Elgin to clearance some metal on the heads that support a stud (if I remember right) that should help performacne. has anyone done that modification?
Elgin Cams listing:......................................

"PORSCHE 914 PROFILES

On the 7208 and wilder grinds we recommend having a slot cut down the middle of the timing gear to create two rows of teeth. This helps reduce oil throw off and oil foaming at high rpms.

Lifters must always be reconditioned or replaced. Beware of aftermarket 914 lifters, some of them are of very poor quality.

INTAKE ROCKER ARM RATIO = 1.3:1 EXHAUST ROCKER ARM RATIO = 1.25:1



GRIND NO.
SEAT DURATION
CAM LIFT
LASH
APPLICATION

64508-H
258

258
.294

.294
I HYD.

E HYD
HYDRAULIC LIFTER.

WILL WORK WITH F.I.

6508-H
260

260
.292

.292
I HYD.

E HYD
HYDRAULIC LIFTER STREET GRIND A LITTLE ROUGH WITH F.I.

68508-H
274

274
.302

.302
I HYD.

E HYD
PERFORMANCE HYDRAULIC, MORE COMP, & GOOD EXH. SYSTEM.

914
255

254
.296

.282
I STD.

E STD.
STOCK SOLID LIFTER GRIND.

330-1
256

255
.296

.296
I STD.

E STD.
IMPROVED STOCK. MORE LOBE AREA THAN STOCK. GOOD W/ F.I.

6408-18
256

256
.296

.296
I STD.

E STD.
WIDE TORQUE BAND. A LITTLE ROUGH WITH FUEL INJECTION.

66508-19
266

266
.305

.305
I STD.

E STD.
CARBS REQUIRED. SMOOTH IDLE, 1500-4500 RPM.

M6708-18
268

268
.314

.314
I STD.

E STD.
REQUIRES CARB AND A GOOD EXHAUST SYSTEM.

7008-17
280

280
.333

.333
I STD.

E STD.
BIG BORE KIT, CARBS, 9:1 AND HEADER, 2000-6000 RPM

7208-17
288

288
.333

.333
I STD.

E STD.
BIG BORE KIT, 9.5:1, CARBS, AND HEADER 2500-6000 RPM

7207-19
288

288
.369

.369
I STD.

E STD.
HOT STREET - AUTOCROSS. 9.5+:1, 2500-7000 RPM.

7508-18
300

300
.350

.350
I STD.

E STD.
AUTOCROSS. 10.5:1, 3800-7300 RPM.

7708-17
308

308
.369

.369
I .008

E .010
FULL RACE. 11.5:1, 3800-7300 RPM.

[Root_Werks]

Loose the D-Jet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[realred914]

Loose the D-Jet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

sorry not an option for me.


just wondering what other folks have done with valve sizes, head work, cam shafts, compression etc... for a 2056 cc motor that must run with D-jet

I am told my existing 2 liter heads are usable after some welding and we will be repalceing all eight valve seats. we can perform some chamber modificatins and porting as needed.

just want to get an idea of what you all have done in simular situation(keeping the D-jet)

I do understand that I can send my MPS to Bleyseng for recalibration (as tradisrad has done) to the new motor.

other than that I am pretty open to suggestions.

[Jake Raby]

so what I gather is offered by raby is a new bus head modified to replicate the 2 liter 914 head with smaller diameter spark plug threads but same chamber and ports. and same valve sizes. does this seem right?

Partially. The smaller plugs make for stronger chambers more resistant to cracking.

So it appears I can fix my heads to be more or less the same not sure if i will change the plug hole or not.

But you'll be making a significant investment in a set of castings that are still 35+ years old and are on their ninth life. I believe in spending more money initially but ending up with a component thats fresh and still on its first life, seems like money better spent to me. thats the reason why ALL my new engines and kits use these same cylinder heads.

so the stock valves work with the raby cam (still have no idea which cam to choose, several are offered)

I work it differently.. You supply me with the specs of the engine, your RPM range and a ton more info and I select the cam from my library. Here we do not use the "one line description" for camshafts because no one understands these cams better than I do, since I developed each of them and have used them in complete engines so I know their characteristics when coupled to various combinations..

You might be better off going with Elgin, they let you pick exactly what you want. The only problem with that is most people have no idea what they really need. There is a very good reason why so many people have told you to buy my cam kit.

[tradisrad]

I am happy with Jakes cam, but I got one w/o the push rods. The engine runs great and has nice power. Ken Jansen did the build for me.

[realred914]

so what I gather is offered by raby is a new bus head modified to replicate the 2 liter 914 head with smaller diameter spark plug threads but same chamber and ports. and same valve sizes. does this seem right?

Partially. The smaller plugs make for stronger chambers more resistant to cracking.

So it appears I can fix my heads to be more or less the same not sure if i will change the plug hole or not.

But you'll be making a significant investment in a set of castings that are still 35+ years old and are on their ninth life. I believe in spending more money initially but ending up with a component thats fresh and still on its first life, seems like money better spent to me. thats the reason why ALL my new engines and kits use these same cylinder heads.

so the stock valves work with the raby cam (still have no idea which cam to choose, several are offered)

I work it differently.. You supply me with the specs of the engine, your RPM range and a ton more info and I select the cam from my library. Here we do not use the "one line description" for camshafts because no one understands these cams better than I do, since I developed each of them and have used them in complete engines so I know their characteristics when coupled to various combinations..

You might be better off going with Elgin, they let you pick exactly what you want. The only problem with that is most people have no idea what they really need. There is a very good reason why so many people have told you to buy my cam kit.

i will get you the engine specs once i get the data from others results, compression changes for example also depends on the cam cgoice, so my static compression ratio plus the cam choice and some other factors help determine the actual dynamic compression ratio., got to select them togther both teh camand the compression , I dont want to pick a compression that may get a cam that compromises something else maybe???

open to any discusion on pros- and cons of the varius combonations with a D-jet compatble engine as the constraint.?????????????

[Cap'n Krusty]

Over the last 37 (almost 38!) years I've used a number of camshafts that were advertised as D-jet compatible. None were. (I've not tried Jake's, but I respect his knowledge and the hands on practical research he's done to ensure his WILL work as advertised.) Many (most?) of the others have been designed by engineers who haven't used them in an emissions controlled environment, nor do they appear to have had any practical experience in driveability. The system expects to see a certain set of vacuum characteristics that come from the stock camshaft profile, and few, if any, offerings of the big names in camshaft grinding provide those characteristics. Web Cam doesn't, Norris didn't, Isky, the same, nor any of the others I've tried. They all run really fat at idle, have a flat spot you could play pool on, and are otherwise a PITA to tune and to drive.

Consider that, please, before you pick a cam. They're a REAL PITA to replace once you've decided I might just be right.

The Cap'n

[914werke]

I do understand that I can send my MPS to Bleyseng for recalibration (as tradisrad has done) to the new motor.

Not unless he decides to come back from Suriname (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
When he does Im at the front o' that line

[Jake Raby]

Over the last 37 (almost 38!) years I've used a number of camshafts that were advertised as D-jet compatible. None were. (I've not tried Jake's, but I respect his knowledge and the hands on practical research he's done to ensure his WILL work as advertised.) Many (most?) of the others have been designed by engineers who haven't used them in an emissions controlled environment, nor do they appear to have had any practical experience in driveability. The system expects to see a certain set of vacuum characteristics that come from the stock camshaft profile, and few, if any, offerings of the big names in camshaft grinding provide those characteristics. Web Cam doesn't, Norris didn't, Isky, the same, nor any of the others I've tried. They all run really fat at idle, have a flat spot you could play pool on, and are otherwise a PITA to tune and to drive.

Consider that, please, before you pick a cam. They're a REAL PITA to replace once you've decided I might just be right.

The Cap'n

I agree with The Cap'n... I tried all the off the shelf offerings with no success until I developed the 9550, 9560 and 9590 grinds back in 1999. They were all developed to have a very conservative opening event to enhance the vaccum signature that the MPS sees. This is VERY critical to proper operation.

I tried over ten variations of the first version which is based from the Web 73 grind, the lobe separation and exhaust profile are altered from that base grind.

I've sold about 1500 of these camshafts, about 60 of those were sold this year. Out of all those I've had two complaints, both from people who misconfigured the remainder of their engine around the 9550 camshaft. Thats the reason why I am so critical of the combination that my camshaft will be used in conjunction with.

Cam grinders aren't engine builders, they have no idea how their product couples to different head configurations, induction systems or exhaust systems. I tell the cam grinder what to grind, I don't ask them to recommend what I need. They are about the worst person to make the selection. I wonder how many of them drove a TIV powered car to work today?

[TargaToy]

For you guys with experience, what kind of power could one hope to achieve with a fuel injected 2056 (D-Jet OR L-Jet) assuming the entire system was optimized as per Jake's recommendations? I've been following almost every string on the subject and it often seems the big hp numbers and drivability claims are from owners of carbed cars. Is there no hope to make 120-130 hp with a tuned EFI TIV? Is it the intake runners or the cams or what that are the major hurdle?

[Jake Raby]

For you guys with experience, what kind of power could one hope to achieve with a fuel injected 2056 (D-Jet OR L-Jet) assuming the entire system was optimized as per Jake's recommendations? I've been following almost every string on the subject and it often seems the big hp numbers and drivability claims are from owners of carbed cars. Is there no hope to make 120-130 hp with a tuned EFI TIV? Is it the intake runners or the cams or what that are the major hurdle?

Here is the MOST I have ever made with stock FI.. typically the peak power is 4-6HP less than this and generally made at or below 5,500 RPM.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.aircooledtechnology.com-1095-1289878660.1.gif)
This combo was:
-2056cc
-KB 96mm P&C
-RAT 9560 cam
-.035 deck height
- LE 180 CNC heads
-8.8:1 CR
-Stock D jet with MPS tuning
-Tangerine Racing header in 1-5/8"

[TargaToy]

That's good stuff, Jake.

How about with a 1911?

[draganc]

@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".