 Best method of break in for motor rebuild?, Also what oil to use during & after |
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| JRust |
 Oct 13 2009, 08:45 PM
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#1
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914 Guru  Group: Members Posts: 6,307 Joined: 10-January 03 From: Corvallis Oregon Member No.: 129 Region Association: Pacific Northwest 
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I am getting my rebuilt 2.0 motor back for my 74 LE resto. What is the best way to break in the motor from the time I put oil in the first time. Also what oil do you recommend for the initial break in. I plan to use Brad Penn 20w50 after. I know they make a break in oil at like 30 weight. Just curious what you guys recommend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Also would it be better to start out with Carbs. I don't know the condition of my FI. I will be replacing all the lines & cleaning my Fuel injectors. Just seems like I could troubleshoot the carbs initially a little easier. Again what do you guys prefer? |
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| underthetire |
Oct 13 2009, 09:37 PM
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(JRust @ Oct 13 2009, 07:45 PM)  I am getting my rebuilt 2.0 motor back for my 74 LE resto. What is the best way to break in the motor from the time I put oil in the first time. Also what oil do you recommend for the initial break in. I plan to use Brad Penn 20w50 after. I know they make a break in oil at like 30 weight. Just curious what you guys recommend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Also would it be better to start out with Carbs. I don't know the condition of my FI. I will be replacing all the lines & cleaning my Fuel injectors. Just seems like I could troubleshoot the carbs initially a little easier. Again what do you guys prefer? Dunno, just make sure you fill the filter up with oil before you put it on. |
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| Jake Raby |
Oct 13 2009, 09:40 PM
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#3
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
do not fill the filter first!! Doing so takes longer to bleed the oil system of air and achieve system priming!
Use Brad Penn break in oil. |
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| McMark |
Oct 13 2009, 10:10 PM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) don't fill the filter.
I like break in with carbs for just the reason you mentioned. They're not quite as finicky. |
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| PlaysWithCars |
Oct 14 2009, 12:47 AM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 9-November 03 From: Southeast of Seattle Member No.: 1,323 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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Curious about comments not to fill the filter: it takes longer to prime the engine? Doesn't make sense intuitively. The filter is the first stop between the pump and the rest of the engine, seems it would take longer to prime if the filter was empty and the first 1/2 qt of oil went to filling it instead of to the bearings.
Is this advice true for an oil change also, or only for first time start up? |
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| jcd914 |
Oct 14 2009, 01:01 AM
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#6
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,081 Joined: 7-February 08 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 8,684 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(plays with cars @ Oct 13 2009, 11:47 PM) Curious about comments not to fill the filter: it takes longer to prime the engine? Doesn't make sense intuitively. The filter is the first stop between the pump and the rest of the engine, seems it would take longer to prime if the filter was empty and the first 1/2 qt of oil went to filling it instead of to the bearings. Is this advice true for an oil change also, or only for first time start up? With an empty oil pump and oil in the filter the pump has to generate enough air pressure to push the oil out of the filter in order to suck oil up into the pump. If the filter is just full of air it is easier to suck up the oil and prime the pump and oil circuit. My thoughts anyway. Jim |
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| McMark |
Oct 14 2009, 01:07 AM
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#7
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Jim's got it spot on.
It's easier for the empty pump to prime if it's not trying to push the oil out of the filter at the same time. |
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| Jake Raby |
Oct 14 2009, 07:43 AM
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#8
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Air won't push oil very well, basically not at all. The oil filter being filled with oil does no good at all if the air thats present between the pump and filter is tasked with pushing the oil through the filter.
Leaving the filter empty allows the oil to push the air from the filter and through the rest of the engine progressively filling each cavity of the oil system as it goes. People who think they are smart by filling the oil filter couldn't be more wrong in their assumption. |
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| Gint |
Oct 14 2009, 08:13 AM
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#9
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Mike Ginter Group: Admin Posts: 16,071 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Denver CO. Member No.: 20 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
Wouldn't performing a break in with carbs increase the likelyhood of running to rich and washing the cylinders? Or too lean for that matter. While FI may be finicky, wouldn't it be a lot better for the purpose of performing the break in?
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| charliew |
Oct 14 2009, 09:23 AM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,363 Joined: 31-July 07 From: Crawford, TX. Member No.: 7,958 |
A simple pressure primer made out of 3.0 inch pvc with a screwin cleanout and a quickdisconnect and a pressure regulator hooked up to a oil gallery port is the best primer I know of. I do also run it through a flat cleanable mesh type oil filter thats mounted on the bottom inline with the oil line to the motor. Jeff Smith in this months Car Craft shows a homade primer for motors that don't have a distributor but it's way more complicated than a air powered 2 or 3 qt pvc primer. I just put in about 2 qts and slowly turn the motor through about 4 revolutions while the primer is set on about 30 psi. Then top off the motor to the full mark on the dipstick.
I actually got the idea from a picture on Jake Rabys site. Lucas has a good breakin additive. |
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| 7275914911 |
Oct 14 2009, 10:05 AM
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#11
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Hummmm!!! Group: Members Posts: 756 Joined: 7-May 08 From: Mid-South Member No.: 9,028 Region Association: South East States
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I to am very interested in this topic. In the next couple of weeks I will be ready to turn the key on my recent 2.0 2056 build.
I have BP Break In oil (30 weight), but how long should it stay in. What should I do from the first crank till I get rid of the breakin oil running wise? How do you know that the engine is primed and ready to crank? I have BP 20/50 for my regular oil after breakin. After initial breakin should I drive it like i stole it? All thoughts and input on this topic are appreciated. Hope I'm not Hijacking but my ?'s looked like they belonged here and not in a new topic. Sorry for the newbie line of questioning also.. KP |
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| McMark |
Oct 14 2009, 11:10 AM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
I'm realize we may all be talking about different meanings of break in.
Basically, when making the first 20 minute cam break in, the carbs have a hell of a lot less to go wrong during that time. I suppose if you have a definitively running fuel injection setup that was compatible with the motor you built, then it would be a find choice. But most often for me, I'm dealing with some combo that I don't have tuned FI for. Basically, my biggest concern for the first few minutes is getting the motor spinning and keeping it going. I don't want anything to stop me. With FI I could have a wiring problem, I could have a tuning issue, I could have a bad sensor, I could have something hooked up incorrectly. Too many things to deal with for those first few minutes. Once the 20 minute cam break in is done, then I change out the break-in oil and treat it like a 'normal' motor. |
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| IronHillRestorations |
Oct 14 2009, 01:30 PM
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#13
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,717 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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I always disable the ignition after an oil change and crank the engine (I don't run the starter for more than 15 seconds continuously) until the oil pressure light goes off.
Always do this on a new engine too. Jake or Mark see any problem with this proceedure? |
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| ConeDodger |
Oct 14 2009, 01:42 PM
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#14
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,584 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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I don't trust 30+ year old EFI for break-in because there are too many variables to trust, and little reason to trust them. I don't trust new aftermarket EFI for break-in because you have to dial it in while your engine is vulnerable.
There are really two stages to break-in. First, the cam which is done in the first 20 minutes of run time, next the ring seating which is done in the first 1K miles or less if you use Jake's technique. I agree with McMark. That first 20 minutes for sure and probably the ring seat should be done with carbs. As for break-in oil, Charles Navaro and Jake Raby have done work which is now considered seminal and is quoted all over the internet and even magazine articles which proves Brad Penn has the highest zinc content. If you accept that our motors need high zinc content for survival it seems a no-brainer to use Brad Penn for break-in and beyond. Break-in oil for break-in and 20w 50 beyond. |
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| tat2dphreak |
Oct 14 2009, 02:21 PM
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#15
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE next the ring seating which is done in the first 1K miles or less if you use Jake's technique. does Jake have his technique laid out somewhere? |
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| ConeDodger |
Oct 14 2009, 02:45 PM
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#16
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,584 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(tat2dphreak @ Oct 14 2009, 12:21 PM) QUOTE next the ring seating which is done in the first 1K miles or less if you use Jake's technique. does Jake have his technique laid out somewhere? Jake has mentioned it several times here. I'll let Jake speak to that though... |
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| zymurgist |
Oct 14 2009, 03:23 PM
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#17
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"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(9146986 @ Oct 14 2009, 03:30 PM) I always disable the ignition after an oil change and crank the engine (I don't run the starter for more than 15 seconds continuously) until the oil pressure light goes off. I believe the recommended procedure for my Mercedes is to pull the fuel pump relay after an oil change (canister filter) and crank the engine until the oil pressure light goes off. |
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| Jake Raby |
Oct 14 2009, 04:04 PM
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#18
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(tat2dphreak @ Oct 14 2009, 01:21 PM) QUOTE next the ring seating which is done in the first 1K miles or less if you use Jake's technique. does Jake have his technique laid out somewhere? It can be found on my forums along with all the otgher sensitive materials that I wish to post without argument. |
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| tat2dphreak |
Oct 14 2009, 04:36 PM
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region |
thanks Jake, I'll have to sign up to another set of forums (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| yeahmag |
Oct 14 2009, 06:09 PM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,421 Joined: 18-April 05 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 3,946 Region Association: Southern California
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Hijack: What about filling the filter with oil when simply changing the oil?
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