Control Arm Bushings - The Final Word?, Who is telling the truth? Options

[bcheney]

I need to replace the control arm bushings on my 6 conversion. I am using stock 914 contral arms. I purchased a set of OEM style rubber bushings. The manufacturer is URO Parts. They have a U-tube video explaining why they made their bushings along with a demo of how to install them. The price of a complete set of four bushings was about $50.00 Here is the link to URO's U-tube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45IvTOZxtBE

Elephant Racing makes there own version and claim that brand X (It looks like they may be referencing the URO parts) will not stand up over time. Their price for four bushings and installation tool is over $200. They say the brand X bushing significantly deforms after just one load. Here is the link to Elephants
U-Tube video that compares the two types.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X03h2gE4Rao...feature=related

I am really beginning to wonder if I should just go ahead and install the poly bushings I had at the beginning of all of this. They ran about $40.00 OR $50.00.
I was told they will squeak...so that's why I looked into the OEM style rubber type. I Really dont want to spend another $200 if I dont have to. If you have experience with any of these bushings please give me your thoughs. I would like to know what the real world report is...

[PeeGreen 914]

I would trust Elephant racing's research. I have the ply bronze in my car and it feels like a completely different car with them in. I had the rubber and went to the delrin bushings at first. The squeek pissed me off and I went with the poly bronze. I would suggest everyone do that. Easy to install and no squeek. I know it is money you don't want to spend but if you do it right the first time you generally save money in the long run.

[bcheney]

I appreciate the feedback. The squeak must be pretty bad after all. Damn...

[DBCooper]

The URO master cylinders have rubber grommets that won't let you plug in the stock fill hoses, you need to recover and re-use the grommets from the M/C you're replacing. Even old they work better than the new URO parts. Not a suspension part, but an indication of issues with fabrication of rubber parts.

[lagunero]

If I had to do it all over again (since I did the three) I would just use the poly bushings, hone them to fit your arms, lube'em and shim the arms ala elephant racing. What you really need is the arms not to bind regardless of bushing material (see Elephant racing's website). You can buy their set or just use washers/shims and patience. Squeaking will be less with less binding.

[iamchappy]

And The Final Word, use needle bearings.

[SirAndy]

The Final Word?

Roller-Bearings

[iamchappy]

Roller-needle-Bearings....

[iamchappy]

Rolling-bearing-needle-bearing.....Bearings

[sixaddict]

My rears sound like an old elephant (no reference) ....It can be heard on the autocross course by spectators... Spend the $$ ...Fronts are elephant which are both smooth and quiet.
TOT

[ChrisFoley]

I had the rubber and went to the delrin bushings at first. The squeek pissed me off and I went with the poly bronze. I would suggest everyone do that.

Real Delrin bushings aren't cheap and they don't squeek when machined to fit!
The Poly bushings everyone complains about are not Delrin.
They are crappy cast plastic and honing them so they don't squeek is not enough to solve their problems.
The material is not engineered for the application, whereas Delrin is a high quality machinable polymer with high strength, low deformation, and high natural lubricity.

Forcing any bushing into a steel sleeve that isn't round and then expecting it perform without excessive friction is a recipe for disappointment.
Elephant bushings use a Urethane layer to compensate for the unevenness of the factory housings.
Needle bearings fit loosely and rely on glue to hold them in place.
Weltmeister (and other cast plastic) bushings never fit properly and can't be machined or sanded effectively to be round inside.
Tangerine Racing Delrin bushings are machined round after insertion in the housings.

I would put my Delrin bushings up against the Elephant Polybronze and needle bearing products any time.

[SirAndy]

Rolling-bearing-needle-bearing.....Bearings

Rolling Bears and Needles ... Bearings

[SirAndy]

Needle bearings fit loosely and rely on glue to hold them in place

Now you tell me! Hey McMark, hand me some of that RTV, will 'ya? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Ok Andy,
You tell me how a round sleeve is held tightly in a hole that isn't round without deforming the sleeve.
Either the sleeve has to fit loosely and be glued (rtv isn't glue) or the needle/cage assy has to have a sloppy fit.

[iamchappy]

Rolling bears bearing needles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[THE STIG]

Who has more track time here? I think it pretty clear....
The Tangerine Racing 914 has been raced continuously with SCCA and PCA since 1995.
It was debuted at the ITB support race on the Busch North race weekend at Lime Rock in September, 1994.
During qualifying the car was wrecked in a solo crash at West Bend which resulted in the engine breaking free from its mounts.
Despite an all-night attempt to repair the car for race day it was not capable of being driven at speed,
the suspension and drive train damage being greater than was first obvious.

The following spring the car was out on the opening day Porsche Club Driver Ed at Lime Rock.
It was then raced as an ITB car in the SCCA NARRC series, with Chris finishing more than 30 races in two years.
Most of the 1997 race season was spent upgrading the car to Production category specifications.
A couple of races were run late in the season to test the upgrades, which included a new cooling system and dry sump oiling system.

Chris won the NARRC Regional Championship for E Production cars in 1998.
The car was moved to F Production and Chris won Regional championships again in '00 and '01.

Chris stepped up to National competition in 2003. He won one National race at Lime Rock in the rain and qualified to attend
the National Championship Runoffs at the MId Ohio Sports Car Course, where he qualified 21st and finished 14th.
Speed TV coverage focused on Chris' last lap of the race when he was embroiled in a battle for position with a Lancia Scorpion driven by Sterling Strittmatter.

One week after the 2003 Runoffs, the car was badly damaged again in a high speed crash at Lime Rock during NARRC Regional Championship qualifying.
Chris was uninjured but the car was laid up until July '04 when he resumed National competition.
The '04 season saw Chris once again attend the National Runoffs at MId- Ohio where he finished 15th.
At the '04 NARRC Championships Chris won his class, setting a new personal best time at Lime Rock of 1:01.4

[SirAndy]

...

And how much of that was on roller bearings? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


Everybody seems to have their "favorite" product ...
I know of a few local racers with similar pedigree as Chris and they have been running roller bearings for years with great success.

There's more than one way to skin a cat ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[SirAndy]

Rolling bears bearing needles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Needlebears bearing rollers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Lavanaut]

Argh! Another project that's been on the to-do list for too long. Mark, any progress on those install instructions? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

You tell me how a round sleeve is held tightly in a hole that isn't round without deforming the sleeve.

IIRC, the hole is made round as part of the installation process. Or was, at one point in the development of the kit. Which was one reason that installation was somewhat involved.

Not sure if that's still the case, and I could have misunderstood what I heard, but the above is my understanding of why the bearings are not glued in.

--DD