Transmission Fluid, ???? Options

[underthetire]

Did you see my first post? First reply? I told you you poked that pimple. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Dr Evil]

So you are saying that people are allowed to be jerks because they disagree with someone else point of view? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) We have few rules here and calling people "assholes" because they disagree with you violates them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[detoxcowboy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

[Gint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) is with you people lately? I feel like a babysitter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Can you not have a civil conversation without acting like children? We have like 3 or 4 rules. GO READ THEM!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=65693

Specifically this one:

• Don't call anyone names. Treat other members like your mother taught you - If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. No personal attacks.

Those of you that have violated that rule know who you are. Don't make me have to suspend anyone. Frankly I have better things to do.

[SirAndy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) is with you people lately? I feel like a babysitter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Can you not have a civil conversation without acting like children? We have like 3 or 4 rules. GO READ THEM!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=65693

Specifically this one:

• Don't call anyone names. Treat other members like your mother taught you - If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. No personal attacks.

Those of you that have violated that rule know who you are. Don't make me have to suspend anyone. Frankly I have better things to do.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Listen to the Ginterminator kids ...

[underthetire]

Funny thing to, Redline MT90 is fairly new. It's not been around for twenty years. I have tried MTL, MT90 and Valvoline 80/90 all in the 914. It works the best with 80/90 Valvoline, less syncro grinding. My Toyota truck that I put a brand new transmission in shifted WAY better with the MTL. I think it really depends on the transmission.

Now, can we just get along please. No more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) cause it's just not fun.

[wobbletop]

When I visited the local Swepco guy, he showed me a demonstration like this one:

http://contimp.com/SWEPCO%20201%20Demo%203...Demo%20320.html

Comments?

[steuspeed]

Dr. Evil. So I should be running this Red Line non synthetic GL5 gear oil 75W-90? Sounds like the stuff I need. Or maybe just run good old Valvoline like underthetire says.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

[Richard Casto]

Transmission oil is not really a "wear" item, which makes it easier to justify the extra expense for Swepco.

Yes and no. Transmission oil doesn't live as hard of a life as engine oil, but I would put it firmly in the "wear item" or "needs to be replaced" category. Stuff can get inside (such as via the breather vent) and periodic replacement can flush that stuff out. Also, the oils have additives (particular such as the EP - Extreme Pressure) that do not last indefinitely. Not that you said it, my concern is I don't want new owners to think transmission fluid is a "never change" item. It does have a service schedule.

Redline oil is actually contraindicated in our gearboxes (hypoid gears).

I know why you are saying this, can almost agree, but don't agree. Redline does have a GL-5 transmission fluid that should be fine in our transmission. I haven't used it, so I can't say how well it works. Even your other post above with the text from the Redline site does says which of their fluids to use in our transmission.

What concerns me about Redline is that it's really easy to buy the wrong fluid from them. I see lots of comments about "Redline MT Fluid". Are they using "MT" as a generic term for "Manual Transmission" fluid or the specific "MT/MTL" product line from Redline? The specific "MT/MTL" line of fluids from Redline is GL-4 ("4" not "5") and should NOT be used in a 901/914 transmission. As you say above it is not GL-5 and is not compatible with hypoid designs. So we can agree on that. Specifically the following from Redline should NOT be used in a 901/914

* Red Line MT-90 GL-4 (Not GL-5 spec)
* Red Line MT-80 GL-4 (Not GL-5 spec)
* Red Line MTL GL-4 (Not GL-5 spec)

But Redline does have two GL-5 products. BUT of their two GL-5 fluids, one has a lot of friction modifiers and even on their site says that it should NOT be used in transaxles (combo transmission with synchros and a differential). That due to the friction modifiers you may experience bad shift quality. In short that fluid should also NOT be used in a 901/914 transmission. The second one however does look to fit the bill. Basically you really have to read all of the fine print to zero in on that one single product out of a small sea of manual transmission fluids from them. That one Redline fluid that should work is "75W90 NS GL-5 Gear Oil". The three things to note are...

* "75W90". The viscosity is not 80W90, but probably is fine
* "NS". This is the version that has less friction modifiers so it is more compatible with our synchro design.
* "GL-5". It is GL-5 spec and works with hypoid gears.

Here is a direct link on thier site...

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Now because it is so easy to buy the wrong thing from them I can understand the "Don't buy Redline" stance. Even then, someone may use the right stuff from them and still report problems (such as the other thread in which Swepco is not working well for one guy), or it might work great for them. As always, your mileage may vary!

On top of all of that, I put Redline in the "boutique" category just like Swepco. Which again may or may not add any real value. I probably wouldn't buy it personally and would just buy good quality GL-5 dino oil from one of the regular mainstream vendors (Valvoline, Castrol, etc.).

Lastly, here is my article on transmission fluid...

http://www.blueskymotorsports.com/index.ph...16&Itemid=6

Richard

[Richard Casto]

When I visited the local Swepco guy, he showed me a demonstration like this one:

http://contimp.com/SWEPCO%20201%20Demo%203...Demo%20320.html

Comments?

You link is broken. So I can't comment! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Richard

[gothspeed]

Dr. Evil. So I should be running this Red Line non synthetic GL5 gear oil 75W-90? Sounds like the stuff I need. Or maybe just run good old Valvoline like underthetire says.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

I agree with Dr E's logic for GL5 ................ and that redline oil on your link looks like an updated version of it ............ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ............ I would use it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)!!

[Dr Evil]

Use what you want. I already posted my experience in several places, and in the 31 pages of notes, that you should read, that comes with a TOC. Tranz oil is absolutely a wear item; Heat and dirt.

[Drums66]

Funny thing to, Redline MT90 is fairly new. It's not been around for twenty years. I have tried MTL, MT90 and Valvoline 80/90 all in the 914. It works the best with 80/90 Valvoline, less syncro grinding. My Toyota truck that I put a brand new transmission in shifted WAY better with the MTL. I think it really depends on the transmission.

Now, can we just get along please. No more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) cause it's just not fun.

.........Read my other post....mr discredit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (Redline period)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[SirAndy]

Tranz oil is absolutely a wear item; Heat and dirt.

Chemically speaking, it doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down. Thus my comment about not being a "wear" item.

Never did i say anything along the lines that it doesn't get dirty or that it should never ever be replaced.

However, i do disagree with those who claim that one must replace the transmission oil at similar (or close to) intervals as engine oil.

And yes, i still run Swepco, and yes, i'm still happy with the shifting. YMMV.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Mark Henry]

Oil preference is almost as bad as politics and religion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
If you have already bought swepco just run it. If you like it and are willing to pay the price just do it.

I have some 201 and what I've been doing (on my VW Golf and bus) is filling it with 2L of cheap stuff and topping it up with the 201. Gives it the pretty blue colour that's easy to tell from engine oil if you have a leak.
One pint (500ml) mixed in should do the job.

I'm going change the oil every so often, more likely for age than mileage.

[Steve]

Tranz oil is absolutely a wear item; Heat and dirt.

Chemically speaking, it doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down. Thus my comment about not being a "wear" item.

Never did i say anything along the lines that it doesn't get dirty or that it should never ever be replaced.

However, i do disagree with those who claim that one must replace the transmission oil at similar (or close to) intervals as engine oil.

And yes, i still run Swepco, and yes, i'm still happy with the shifting. YMMV.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I'm confused... if the oil doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down, then why does Porsche put external oil coolers on there transmissions, including the 915?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[SirAndy]

I'm confused... if the oil doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down, then why does Porsche put external oil coolers on there transmissions, including the 915?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Of course you want to keep your transmission oil cool. I never said anything otherwise. I never said you don't benefit for an oil cooler.

But there's a difference between chemically braking the bond of molecules (very bad) and oil thinning out due to heat (bad enough).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Tranz oil is absolutely a wear item; Heat and dirt.

Chemically speaking, it doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down. Thus my comment about not being a "wear" item.

Never did i say anything along the lines that it doesn't get dirty or that it should never ever be replaced.

However, i do disagree with those who claim that one must replace the transmission oil at similar (or close to) intervals as engine oil.

And yes, i still run Swepco, and yes, i'm still happy with the shifting. YMMV.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. At what temp would you consider oil to be a wear item? Chemically speaking, it is breaking down inside the bottle. It is degrading the moment it is created. Heat accelerates this, more heat even faster, but it is not necessary. Since the oil is less heated than engine oil, it need not be replaced other than at the 10Kmi interval recommended by the engineers at Porsche. I recommend Swepco be changed more often as it still gets dirt and gear crap in it, but that it keeps it in solution so that it may interact with the other parts of your gear box on a regular basis. Will this be witnessed in the short term? No way, long term this will lead to $$$.

Mark, you are on the ball. This seems to be like a religion or politics discussion.

[Steve]

I'm confused... if the oil doesn't get hot enough to start breaking down, then why does Porsche put external oil coolers on there transmissions, including the 915?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Of course you want to keep your transmission oil cool. I never said anything otherwise. I never said you don't benefit for an oil cooler.

But there's a difference between chemically braking the bond of molecules (very bad) and oil thinning out due to heat (bad enough).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Thank you for the clarification!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
It's funny why Porsche put external oil coolers on 3.2 915 trans in Europe but not in the states. You think it would be generally hotter over here than in most parts of Europe.

[SirAndy]

It's funny why Porsche put external oil coolers on 3.2 915 trans in Europe but not in the states. You think it would be generally hotter over here than in most parts of Europe.

Speed limit (or lack thereof). My guess is the cars see a lot more high speed driving in Europe compared to the US.
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