Crankfire vs. Distributor????, anyone have hard numbers???? Options

[DNHunt]

The Ford trigger wheel comes off of a pulley for the serpentine belt. Easy to remove

Mount it to an enlarged version of the spacer washer between the hub and the fan.

The VR sensor will mount to the inside of the cooling shroud below the area of the oil cooler. It needs to be something like 100 degrees before TDC #1 so that area works really well. It's similar to Mark's mount.

Mind you I still haven't run it.

Dave

[DNHunt]

Here's a picture of the sensor mounted on the cooling shroud

[DNHunt]

Here's the trigger wheel

[Mueller]

thanks Dave....mind if I copy???? hahahahaha

I do wish the 36-1 wheel was lighter, I guess something could be done about that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[J P Stein]

Generally, they'll say things like "still runs smooth with a huge plug gap", or something like that. So far, I haven't seen any quantitative tests that show the advantages of running that huge plug gap. (NOTE: this was on other engines, not a Type IV, not even an aircooled engine).

Quantitaive? What will you accept?

The fact that now I don't foul out plugs every 100 miles?
That the engine will idle smoothly till hell freezes over?

I don't run a crankfire setup. but MSD/dizzy....with a large plug gap. I'd tell you that the motor runs much smoother at low rpms, but that would be subjective.

I doubt there is any HP gain up top. The big gap is for down low. The high voltage spark is to ensure that the big gap is jumped at high rpms.

From what I read, those coilpacks don't generate any more voltage than your basic standard coil.

[fiid]

Coilpacks probably don't generate all that much more than a stock coil, however they generate it straight to the plug. Anything with a dizzy has to jump from the rotor to the cap first, and THEN it jumps the plug gap. Last time I looked, air had a moderately large resistance.

Also - a coilpack gets twice as long to charge as a single coil does at any given RPM. (Assuming wasted-spark setup)

Mike - the 36-1 disk aint that heavy, and you could always make it skinnier. I would get a lightened flywheel and make a very light hub to mount the disk on if you are that worried about it.

Also (Mike) here are the subaru group names I promised you:
Subaru-tech (all subarus)
LegacyB4 (the twin turbo engine).

[jonwatts]

thanks Dave....mind if I copy???? hahahahaha

Remember our discussion from lunch on Tuesday regarding your new business name (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Dave, if you are gonna use that on the engine kit I'm building for you I mus have that trigger wheel for balancing. It must be indexed in the position that it will be installed..

[DNHunt]

Jake

It's in the box. It's indexed via the dowel on the fan hub. I know it has to be part of the balance and once it's in it has to stay.

Yes, I'm gonna include it in the build as the spacing washer on the fan hub. I'll have the VR sensor on the cooling shroud but I'm gonna start the engine with a Mallory, get a fuel map that isn't dangerous, then tune the fuel map with the O2 sensor. When I'm happy with what I've created, I'll get some chassis dyno time to even out the the fuel map and tidy up the ignition. Programmable ignition is the last thing I would like to add. I think I'll have enough challenges building it and getting the fuel right. It's best to change as few things as possible at any one time.

I love gadgets and I like to fiddle but, right now I don't believe programmable ignition adds a lot until knock sensing or ion sensing can be incorporated. The Megasquirt people will include the ability to use the Ford wheel and VR sensor in future versions. If, in the future they incorporate sensors, which they will, to run the ignition closed loop I'll be all over it. As it stands now I'm gonna watch and wait.

At times I'm a little crazy but I'm not nuts, so I'll take it one thing at a time.

Dave

[airsix]

tat2dphreak, forgot to say thanks for the compliment. Stop bowing. I'm just a monkey loose with tools. Once in a while things fall together.

Mark, NICE setup. That's the RIGHT way to do it IMHO. Same goes for you Dave. Thumbs up guys. This is the stuff I love.

Mike, my setup is similar to Mark's. Three magnets and two sensors. Two of the magnets mark TDC and 180-from-TDC. These magets are mounted with a specific pole facing the sensors. One of the sensors reads these two magents only. The third magnet is invisible to this first sensor. The magnets are actually possitioned to pass the sensor about 40 degrees ahead of TDC and 180-of-TDC. The ECU is programmed with this baseline so that it knows when it gets a signal it will be another 40 degrees of rotation before the piston is at the top. That gives it time to prepare a spark to occur at the programmed advance angle before the piston gets to the top. The third magnet is mounted with the oposite pole facing the sensors as the other magnets. One hall sensor only sees the North side of a magnet and the other sensor only sees the South side of a magnet. So one sensor only sees the two opposing magnets, and the second sensor only sees the third magnet. This third magnet leads the TDC magnet by a few degrees. It's just a marker so the ECU can tell which of the opposing magnets is TDC and which is 180 opposed. Now the ECU knows which end of the crank is which so it can fire the right coil at the right time. You probably knew all this - sorry if I bored you. I'm interested in the missing-tooth systems. I am sure they have better resolution especially when rpms are changing very rapidly.

-Ben M.

[Mueller]

Hey Ben,

thanks for the info, yes, I knew that already, but I am sure others that are reading this will be educated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The Haltech I have (it belongs to Brad) uses the same basic method for the timming as your system does. It is an older system and it can only be used with the distributor...it couldn't have been that bad, the original mapping on my Haltech is for a twin-turbocharged 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[airsix]

The Haltech I have (it belongs to Brad) uses the same basic method for the timming as your system does. It is an older system and it can only be used with the distributor...it couldn't have been that bad, the original mapping on my Haltech is for a twin-turbocharged 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

Oh, I didn't mean I dislike the three-magnet system. It works really well. So what are you working on these days for your own 914's powerplant? Are you going to run that Haltech in your 914 for a while? On a stock motor or something wild?

-Ben M.

[Mueller]

I'm giving the Haltech back to Brad...at the time he gave it to me, Megasquirt did not have anything for ignition that complemented the adjustibility of the MS itself.

For fuel, I am using the MS without a doubt, now for ignition I have the choice of using MS'n'spark which uses 4 magnets mounted on the crank for position. The MS'n'Spark keeps the distributor for spark allocation similar to your system.

Another option now available is the MS'n'EDIS which is what Dave has started to install on his new 2.0 that he and his son are going to build.

After seeing Daves install, it's seems the choice now is a no-brainer. I've been without an engine for so long, I had nothing to use for mocking anything up. Now I have an 1.8 to use to get dimensions off of and to test fit the parts. I already have all of the EDIS components, I was not sure if the 36-1 would be able to mount behind the fan, I guess I never saw Daves installation or I just had a brain freeze and forgot about it.

motor? 1.8 temporary to use as a test mule for the turbo...at first I had ditched the turbo idea since I felt I couldn't afford to do it correctly (I still can't, LOL)

since the turbo is already paid for (early subaru FV48 like yours), I figured what the heck?!?!?!? Now the biggest stumbling block is deciding which exhaust system to use and to send off to Jet-Hot.

My two choices are:
used header (european)...this means mounting the turbo way in the back behind the axle or running a really long pipe off of the header to the turbo and mount the turbo up in the engine compartment

or, use late 1.8/2.0 "log" exhaust, I'd use a "Y" pipe to join the two and mount the turbo in the engine compartment.

For the intercooler, I have an early Volvo unit, I'm sure it'll work for now, but a nice modern aluminum unit would be much better.

I am pretty sure both Ed's run thier turbos inside of the engine compartment....as always, there will be comprimises to each method. I am not looking for a high output, high rpm track machine.....bottom end and mid range torque is going to be more important right now. It might be a half-ass way of doing it, but I figure I can always upgrade the turbo at a later date when funds match the need (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Hmmm....turbo again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

YOU CAN"T TURBO A 914! But what the fuck do I know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A future turbo is one reason I got this system. All I have to do is buy a 2-bar MPS (for up to 15psi) and I'm good to go with boost retard.

For the intercooler, I have an early Volvo unit, I'm sure it'll work for now, but a nice modern aluminum unit would be much better.

All the Volvo intercoolers I've seen are huge. Where do you plan to put it?
I've been thinking about a air/water intercooler to keep the heat out of the bay.
Still in the thinking stage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)